2457. Seamus - Aug. 1, 1998 - 9:28 AM PDT
wabbit,
I would be *extremely* appreciative. I wish so much to compare the "original" to Rilke's take on it. I want to see what he meant by "glow". He also was taken with the youth's sexuality.
I *must* stop passing through Paris, and stop there some time.
Again, I thank you, wabbit
2458. Seamus - Aug. 1, 1998 - 9:57 AM PDT
glendajean,
I've thought a bit more about the National Gallery, and here's a spontaneous recollection of some of the things that I have liked. With the exception of, for example, The Louvre, I generally try out museums and galleries in any city I visit, so if I accidentally place something in DC that belongs elsewhere, I apologise in advance.
I remember:
a Marchesa Grimaldi (sp?) by van Dyck, with the most brilliant red parasol being held by a slave. I remember the balance as awesome, and her appearance as regal. I always imagined this made *her* look as regal and beautiful as Elizabeth I wanted for herself and never would be able to acheive.
I remember the colours so vivid in something like "The Coronation of the Virgin" done on wood by a Venetian painter.
There is something modern art-designish about "The Annunciation" by
Masolino da Panicali (I am butchering the spelling). I love it. Look at the tiled ceiling, as I remember--it has modern graphic art in it.
I remember a tondo done by two monks: "The Adoration of the Magi"
What's not to like about the same by Botticelli?
I loved almost anything Titian--I remember a "Doge Gritti"? that was owned by an English monarch at one point.
I remember a Rubens of a woman standing, hair all done up, in a heavy gown that looks of spun metallic gold.
I remember several Poussin, but in particular, one of the Holy Family, and it has all my primary colours together, and shadow, and then that blue sky!
I remember one of a girl reading--she is wearing a bright yellow dress. I don't remember the painter.
I remember Latour's "Portrait of Sonia"--there is very little colour in this, but her look gets me every time.
I'd better quit this--I remember an incredible bronze of Hercules and Antaeus.
2459. Seamus - Aug. 1, 1998 - 10:01 AM PDT
Anyway, I display my ignorance so as to demonstrate why I lurk and learn here.
2460. verdeazul - Aug. 1, 1998 - 10:55 AM PDT
Seamus (and all other lovers of fine painters/ings):
I posted this link once before,
sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/Internet
but it deserves being posted again. This is the URL for the main server (in Denmark) for this extraordinary online gallery of beautifully organised and displayed paintings. There are at least 7 other mirror sites in Europe, 2 in America and 1 at the University of Tokyo, Japan.
These scans have all been made by the same remarkable woman, Carol Gerten, and she continues to add and to expand to the already impressive number of images, artists, and painting styles from all around the world and from many eras. From the old european Masters, to French Impressionists, to Modern artists....they are all only a few clickss away - and the image quality is simply astounding.
I forget how or when I stumbled across this incredible resource, but I sent her $25.00 the same day (not that she was begging for bucks). But, she has created something, largely through her own hard work and with her own modest funds, that proves what the Internet CAN do - and be for people who will never be able to spend a few days at The Prado in Madrid or a week or two in the Lovre.
Brudda 'Zul gives 6 stars (out of a possible 5...don't want Ms. Gerten gettin' lazy). Check it out, now and whenever you crave some pure beauty.
verdevangogh~
2461. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 1, 1998 - 11:25 AM PDT
BruthaZul, Thanx for the site I have bookmarked it for future use. It is wonderful.
Seamus, I used that site to look up some of the works you listed. I especially wanted to see the one with the red parasol. It sounds very interesting. I could not find the artist listed. Do you know of another site where I might view some of the works that you mentioned?
2462. verdeazul - Aug. 1, 1998 - 11:51 AM PDT
Sharon:
The painting by van Dyck that Seamus mentioned is in the collection I've linked above. Read Ms. Gerten's note on how she has chosen to alphabetize the painters' names list. Van Dyck is listed in her "featured painters" list under the letter "D". The featured painters all have at least 5 scans on display...most have more. There are also interesting, short biographies on many of the artists.
Do, look again (The "Red Parasol" is a marvelous image, Seamus).
van Zul~
2463. wabbit - Aug. 1, 1998 - 2:14 PM PDT
Sharon,
Here are most of the images Seamus mentioned. The one of the reading girl in the yellow dress eludes me (could she be writing? I'm thinking of a Vermeer).
Van Dyck
Agnolo Gaddi
Masolino
Fra Angelico and Fra Filippo Lippi
Botticelli
Titian
Rubens
Poussin
Fantin-Latour
and, for better or worse, any number of bronzes of Hercules and Antaeus, which I will need to let Seamus pick through to speicfy the one he meant.
V'zul, that is a great link. I've used it several times since you first posted it way back when. Many thanks.
2464. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 1, 1998 - 11:24 PM PDT
Wabbit, thank you for going to all of that trouble for me. I especially liked the Masolino, the Rubens, and the Fantin-Latour. WRT the Fantin-Latour, Seamus is correct. Something about the young woman's look really drew me in.
2465. g98mcfarlane - Aug. 2, 1998 - 2:51 AM PDT
Hello fellow Fraysters. Just dropped in, in a *nitecap* so to speak. Thought I'd share the following. Probably you are all up to speed on this but for the uninitiated please check out www.secondnature.com. This site blessed us with a fabulous collection of Monet, Manet, Renoir, The Gilded Age, Tissot, etc., in screen savers at a remarkable reasonable cost. Our computer is dripping with masterpieces from every corner of the world. Suffice to say, although it isn't a museum *in the flesh* (if Rubens will forgive the pun) it is sumptuous feast for the eyes.
2466. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 2, 1998 - 9:33 AM PDT
g, nice site. I saved it and will check it out later. Thanx
2467. g98mcfarlane - Aug. 2, 1998 - 10:34 AM PDT
Mornin' Fellow Fraysters:
I should have mentioned that when you visit the www.secondnature.com site that The Smithsonian is where you will find "The Gilded Age," collection as well as another collection including Homer, Whittredge, Cole, etc. The Van Gogh, Renoir, Manet, Monet, collections etc. are listed separately under the "Fine Art" category.
But the beauty of this location is that when you "click on a pic" you are able to bring up the entire thumbnail-sized collection of the works. This site is well worth perusing.
Collections are reasonably priced at just under $l0.00 U.S. each and you can download directly from website into your computer, then call their authorization number, give them your credit card number and they will give you an access code which will open your selection. Just like hopping into The Louvre, et.al. Hope this paints a beautiful picture.
2468. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 2, 1998 - 10:40 AM PDT
Mornin' g!
2469. g98mcfarlane - Aug. 2, 1998 - 11:15 AM PDT
Mornin' Sweet Sharon. I still have a grapefruit spoon hanging out of my mouth and my eyeballs really haven't even begun to *laughingly* focus. Later I shall summon up (never use that terminology with a lawyer) the courage to venture forth into the Fray. For now, I'm gonna schmooze my pillow. Somehow yesterday lost all sense of rhyme and reason, wait - no - that's the poetry section. Oh well, bedtime *dawned* on me at about 5:00 a.m. so forgive me for now bidding adieu. I'll catch the WebWave later dude-ette, zzzzzz! One thing I will know for certain is that you'll be right up their on top of things. *Art's my girl.*
2470. JustSayYo - Aug. 2, 1998 - 11:18 AM PDT
Thanks, bro zul, sharon, wabbit, and g.
2471. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 2, 1998 - 11:53 AM PDT
Does anyone know of a site where one can view some of the more current artists? I am art illiterate. Around here the only art is cowboy art.
2472. Seamus - Aug. 2, 1998 - 1:26 PM PDT
wabbit Message #2463
You are *awesome*! From tidbits of misinformation, so much beauty!
I am sure it is my own lack of specificity, but the "The Coronation of the Virgin" I remember was a squarer composition, with perhaps 8 or 9 angels above the principle figures.
The Poussin you linked is lovely, but the one I have in mind has the family splashed foreground in yellow, red, and blue; the male is in shadow to the right--they are on the steps of a building or something, and there is a partly cloudy, partly not, sky above right. The balance lower left to upper right and the colours are what I remember. I wish I remembered the painter.
As to Hercules and Antaeus, I remember it was by a Paduan--Antaeus is held aloft, with head turned and arms extended, by Hercules, who is standing straight, as I remember it.
As to the Vermeer, I think that is a woman writing, but that isn't the one I had in mind. Mine is complete seated left profile, large cushion propped behind, bright yellow, and she is completely absorbed in her tract, maybe a bible.
Is the Botticelli you linked a detail? I remember figures posed similarly, but many more figures overall, left and right, with the Florentine type background. Anyway, I like what you linked.
Anyway, tracking down my poor memories is not worth it...I am impressed at what you *did* find. And I am deeply grateful.
Now, you can *smirk* at my tastes and descriptive abilities. I would.
2473. wabbit - Aug. 2, 1998 - 2:27 PM PDT
g98, there are programs available that allow you to create your own slide show type screen savers, so you could have whatever images tickled your fancy on your screen.
Sharon, there are *so* many art sites on the web, how current do you want to get? WebMuseum is a decent starting point for art through the Pop era. Also, Yahoo has a good listing of museums and galleries.
Seamus,
Try this "Coronation of the Virgin" and see if it's the one you meant. Paintings of the Holy Family are so numerous, but if something fitting your description leaps to mind, I'll post it. Do you have a rough guess for the time period/style of the reading girl in yellow? The Botticelli is the full image. Tracking these down is fast and easy, you gave excellent descriptions and after all, I do this a lot. And I will not smirk, it gives one wrinkles!
2474. g98mcfarlane - Aug. 2, 1998 - 3:15 PM PDT
To: Christopher Benfey, wherever you may be.
Accolades for a most informative and interesting rendering on Bonnard. Your critique/dissertation caused me to take a closer look at his work. The results were a pleasurable awakening to a new found passion for Earthly Paradise and The Bathroom. Before your illuminating, typewritten brush strokes, these pieces had been lost to me. A sincere thank you for your *tour de force* which "Netted" me these results.
2475. g98mcfarlane - Aug. 2, 1998 - 3:21 PM PDT
dear wabbit:
Most appreciative, thank you. Beep-de-da-beep, That's all folks!
2476. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 2, 1998 - 6:06 PM PDT
wabbit, thanx!
2477. Seamus - Aug. 3, 1998 - 1:43 PM PDT
wabbit,
that's the Coronation!
for the reading girl, I would guess that Vermeer is around the correct time, but it's not Vermeer. Just a guess though, about the time.
I've "lost" my laptop for now, so I will be offline for a while--again, many thanks for linking these up--It feels so nice to see old friends.
2478. wabbit - Aug. 4, 1998 - 4:21 PM PDT
In the Language thread, ScottLoar mentioned an article in this month's Smithsonian magazine on Jacques-Louis David. My August issue hasn't arrived yet, but the teaser Smithsonian put on their website looks promising.
2479. senecio - Aug. 4, 1998 - 6:16 PM PDT
Seamus, I believe you are talking about the reading girl by Fragonard. It's lovely
2480. senecio - Aug. 4, 1998 - 6:25 PM PDT
Sorry, I have been away for long, forgot how to post links and don't have the time to re-learn it right now, but this is the site for the Reading Girl mentioned by Seamus sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/Internet
2481. senecio - Aug. 4, 1998 - 6:39 PM PDT
Sorry, again. Ignote the previous message. This is the link to that Fragonarg MSNBCInternet
2482. wabbit - Aug. 4, 1998 - 9:35 PM PDT
Senecio, fabulous, thank you! It's great to see you again!
2483. Seamus - Aug. 5, 1998 - 7:06 AM PDT
senecio,
that is it, indeed! Thank you and hello.
goodbye
2484. senecio - Aug. 5, 1998 - 12:34 PM PDT
Thanks, Wabbit, Seamus.
While we are at it, here's Renoir's Liseuse. IMO it's by far his best rendition of several he made on the subject of a girl reading.
Back in a previous reincarnation, I used to take up the brushes, every other Sunday or so. I once tried to copy this painting. It took me hours just to get that greenish-golden light reflection on her shoulder not to look like like a fat grasshopper.
MSNBCInternet
2485. labarjare - Aug. 6, 1998 - 3:24 PM PDT
Hey! New blood in this thread!!!
A hearty welcome to all.
Senecio - you are here so seldom, I will ask a favor. Some time ago (long enough ago that I suspect the posts are archived, even for this...contemplative...thread) when we were discussing Klee you referred to a number of small "modern art" museums in Northern Europe (Netherlands as I recall, maybe Denmark, possibly in/near Hamburg).
We are going to be "there" later this year and I would appreciate very much getting that list again.
Thanks in advance.
2486. senecio - Aug. 6, 1998 - 4:45 PM PDT
Labarjare - Good to see you. As I said before, I haven't posted often these days, but always check all past postings when I tune in, so I have been folliwing you and Wabbit and the other fraysters.
I don't recall if I talked just about European Museums with good Klee holdings or generally about lovely small Modern Museums. If the latter, my two favorite ones are the Louisiana Museum, near Cohenpahen and the Kroller-Müller Museum in the Netherlands. On the first one, Lawrence Weschler wrote a wonderful essay in The New Yorker some years ago. It was subsequently published in a volume containing six of his art essays, called "Shapinsky's Karma, Bogg's Bills and other..." (I forget the rest of the title). It tells the story of this cheese-maker - who remainds us of Schliemann and Troy - who sold his his business and went about establishing this delightful Museum. The Kroller-Müller is in the middle of a fantastic park in Holland (it is accessible through special buses from some major Dutch Urban centers) and is, of course, noted for his Van Gogh collection, but there are many other gems.
As to Klee in Europe, other than the Swiss public and private collections (at Bern, Basel Zürich) there are particularly good holdigns in Hannover and Düsseldorf
2487. wabbit - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:16 PM PDT
LabJ, I'm envious. (who was giving the lesson on the difference between jealousy and envy?)
Speaking of which, Marj, ditto to you. Any chance we can get you to spill more info about your recent acquisition?
Meanwhile, a couple things now appearing in NYC:
There are two retrospectives at the Jewish Museum, George Segal (sculpture, with some paintings and drawings) and Chaim Soutine (paintings), and while both are worth seeing, the Soutine is exceptional.
The smallish but well selected Chaim Soutine show ends August 16, so anyone who has the chance should see it asap. The show is organized around the early-mid century critical reception of Soutine's work, as opposed to, say, style, narrative, iconography, etc. At the last U.S. Soutine retrospective, in 1950, his work was read as forecasting the holocaust and as being the savior of the French academic style. In hindsight, it was neither.
The museum has divided the discussion of the paintings into decades (1920's, 1930's and 1950's), but I think in 1924-26 there is a shift in Soutine's work, coinciding with his critical and popular acceptance and his association with Marcellin and Madeleine Castaing, his primary patrons from the mid 1920's until his death in 1943. The early work has an energy and intensity that seems subdued or missing in the later work, though the later work seems to have more organization and clarity.
2488. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:19 PM PDT
wabbit; I tried your link and it said "Bad Request"
2489. wabbit - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:31 PM PDT
AAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!
Thanks Sharon, it should be The Jewish Museum.
Not only would I *really* appreciate some HTML right about now, I can't figure out why that link didn't work. I will before I post the rest of my diatribe.
2490. wabbit - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:37 PM PDT
The early portraits are often distorted to the point of being grotesque, the colors are as much the subject as the figure, and the figures move forward in the paintings. In ”The Communicant”, 1924, Soutine uses every color but white to paint the subject's white dress and the figure fills the canvas. In ”The Reading Girl”, 1941, the colors are subtle and the figure recedes in the space.
The early landscapes writhe, as in 1922's “Group of Trees”. The later landscapes have more structure, but are less expressionistic, as in “House at OisËme”, ca. 1934.
While I find his portraits the most interesting of his work, Soutine is perhaps best known for painting dead and dying animals. ”Carcass of Beef”,* 1925, was based on Rembrandt's “The Slaughtered Ox”, 1655. The paintings of eviscerated hares and hanging fowl contrast the beauty of color and texture with the repulsiveness of decaying flesh and the ritual of slaughter. Other paintings take after Courbet and Chardin. Interestingly, for a painter intent on portraying the characteristics of flesh, there is but one nude in all of Soutine's oeuvre.
2491. wabbit - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:39 PM PDT
As glendajean mentioned earlier, Dr. Albert Barnes put Soutine on the map, so to speak, in 1919 when Barnes purchased several Soutine paintings (can't recall the number, could be 40ish, and I still haven't moved those copper plates so can't get at part of my little home library to find the info). A couple of those paintings were sold and are in this show. The rest are still part of the Barnes Foundation collection in Merion, PA, which I highly recommend to anyone who is interested in modern art. They don't have an official website, but here is a fair, unofficial one.
*This painting prompted Soutine to begin injecting the carcasses with formaldehyde to prevent the smell of decaying flesh. Evidently he was painting the carcass, which was hanging in his studio, with fresh blood to maintain the color. The neighbors complained, the police came, and the use of formaldehyde ensued. An argument could probably be made that the result of having more time with which to paint a carcass was that a sense of urgency was lost.
2492. wabbit - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:41 PM PDT
While you are at the Jewish Museum, visit the George Segal exhibit. Trained as a painter, Segal began making figurative sculpture with in the late 1950's while living on a chicken farm. His white, cast plaster figures are widely recognizable, and the exhibit includes several of the environments he created for his figures. His work combines the aesthetic of pop art with ready-mades. The contrast between the monochrome figures and the environments can be very effective and emotionally recalls the paintings of Edward Hopper.
There are two things not to miss in the Segal exhibit. First, the charcoal and pastel portrait drawings are fabulous. Unlike the sculptures, the environment is virtually non-existent, but his mark making is similar to the “hand” seen in the plaster casts and carves space into the drawings. The second item is a short video showing Segal at work in his studio and receiving a visit from the critic Harold Rosenberg. I always find it interesting to watch people work with their hands, but the really fun part of the video is seeing Rosenberg explain to Segal what Segal's work is about. You can just see Segal's eyes glazing over while he smiles and nods his head in agreement. His expression is worth the price of admission. The video also explains the Kent State commission, which was refused (the bronze “Abraham and Isaac” is now at Princeton).
2493. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:48 PM PDT
Thanks, Wabbit. I love your explanations. They are like lessons for me. I love art but know very little about it. These thread has been a real education.
2494. wabbit - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:49 PM PDT
And now that I know why that first link didn't work, I will share. When you create a link in a wp program (such as MS Word, which I used), then cut and paste it into the little green box, the Slate Fray program doesn't recognize the quotation marks. You have to delete them and retype them, and voilà, the link works.
Sheesh.
2495. wabbit - Aug. 6, 1998 - 9:56 PM PDT
Thank *you* Sharon -- all those links would have suffered the same fate and I would have been obliged to correct and repost them all. Now I know what to watch out for!
One thing I should mention about Soutine and formaldehyde: he sometimes painted at farms where or near to where he was staying, and in those cases the formaldehyde was not necessary. But we don't want to relive the pheasant-hanging discussion, do we?
2496. ChristinO - Aug. 7, 1998 - 4:51 PM PDT
Wabbit, thanks for the links. Strangely all of the links from the Barnes site are "forbidden" to my server. I'll have to look from home. Is this a clever ploy to send me to porn sites? (g)
2497. senecio - Aug. 7, 1998 - 4:58 PM PDT
Wabbit, your description of the Soutine show does whet the appetite. I'm sorry I will miss it, as I've been an admirer of Soutine since I first saw a large stash of his work at L'Orangerie.
Speaking of slaugthered oxen, Bacon too tried his hand at the topic. It also reminds me of that superb depiction by Titian of satyr Marsyas being flayed, of which a numerical frayster long since vanished from this thread (and badly missed at that) posted a terrific link, long, long ago.
2498. AzureNW - Aug. 7, 1998 - 5:14 PM PDT
senecio -
The Soutine show whets your appetite?! Looking at the links to Soutine's paintings wabbit provided, I was just thinking of how the images capture a sense of trembling and quiet nausea.
2499. AzureNW - Aug. 7, 1998 - 5:46 PM PDT
wabbit –
Thank you so much for the paintings links and your review of the Chaim Soutine show. I haven't seen Soutine's paintings before. I can see what you mean about the greater color and intensity of emotion in his earlier works. The later paintings are blacker. The biographical note about Soutine's strong fascination with painting dead animals, to the point of him getting into trouble with his neighbors for it, is interesting. Something he saw in dead animals must have been essential to what he expressed in his paintings.
Are all of the figures in his portraits sedentary, so far as you know? Did he suffer from chronic illnesses?
2500. wabbit - Aug. 7, 1998 - 6:01 PM PDT
In the interest of having everyone know what paintings we are talking about, here are the two Senecio mentioned:
Francis Bacon, "Head Surrounded by Sides of Beef", 1954
Titian, "The Flaying of Marsyas", 1575-76
2501. AzureNW - Aug. 7, 1998 - 6:11 PM PDT
Geez, wabbit, I haven't had dinner yet.
It's interesting that skilled painters would contemplate bloody meat with so much care and attention. ????
2502. wabbit - Aug. 7, 1998 - 6:19 PM PDT
Azure,
There are portraits which show people standing, such as "Page Boy at Maxim's", ca. 1925, and "Woman Entering the Water", 1931, which I haven't found online. That is an interesting observation, though; I wonder if his subjects were simply more comfortable being seated when posing for long periods of time.
Soutine himself died from a bleeding ulcer. He was not a drinker, however, and was afraid of alcohol, blaming its abuse for the death of his close friend Modigliani (one of my personal favorites, fwiw).
2503. labarjare - Aug. 7, 1998 - 7:47 PM PDT
Wow. So much to say and so little time.
Thank you, senecio, for the museum references. This time they will be filed away.
Thank you, also, wabbit, for that terrific description of the Soutine show (and Segal too even though I didn't see it) etc. and all the links etc. Glenda - ummm, having never been to the Barnes (shame) and not having seen the traveling exhibit (more shame), I am unaware of the Soutines therein contained.
Someone up there printed a comparison of Soutine and Bonnard. Bah humbug, mostly, I say, since I don't think most comparisons of the two are apt. I certainly will agree that there is a very vivid and consistent involvement in his paintings for Soutine (that intense energy just exudes from almost all of them) that is not present in Bonnard. Indeed, much of his work is detached imo (including those famous late self-portraits.) Think of all those paintings where he makes it clear that he watching. OTOH, those ones where he has just left Marthe's bed certainly are ones of intimacy and involvement imo, even those where he again is clearly watching from nearby.
Gee - should I mention that it is Bonnard's wonderful use of color that gets me mostly worked up about him, anyway?
At any rate, people should really run to see both shows.
Would anyone want to venture a speculation as to why Soutine's reputation, strong that it is especially with artists, isn't even more pronounced? For instance, does much of his work ever hit the auction scene?
2504. wabbit - Aug. 7, 1998 - 8:43 PM PDT
LabJ,
Here is The Louisiana Museum of Modern Art in Denmark.
I don't think Soutine's work is sold very often. The last auctions where Soutines were sold were the Bourdon Collection sale in Paris in 1990 and the Colin Collection sale at Christies in NY in 1995. Perhaps sales are more often privately arranged. I think there are roughly 500 paintings extant, but some are held in largish private collections, like the Barnes group.
I did see the Bonnard show, I promise I'll post about it. In fact, I may see it again next week. I'd be interested to hear comparisons between this hanging and the one you saw in London.
2505. wabbit - Aug. 7, 1998 - 9:33 PM PDT
MOMA has some great stuff up right now, but let's start with that Tom Friedman piece in the new acquisitions gallery, just behind the gift shop. Someone mentioned this to me at the Frayunion and having seen it, I can understand why. At the very least, this one should provoke some discussion. Tom is an interesting fellow. He is obsessive about process. Some people think the curators and collectors who buy his work are certifiable. So, who is this guy, you may ask. Here is a self portrait sculpture, carved out of an aspirin. An aspirin. Are you beginning to get the idea?
The piece at MOMA, “Untitled”, 1995, consists of a standard wooden sculpture stand, painted the usual flat white, with what appears to be a dead housefly on one corner. Here's the thing: it isn't a real fly. It's a fuzzball. Well, ok, it's plastic, hair, fuzz, Play-doh and wire made to resemble a fly. Imagine the patience, the tedium, it must take to assemble these bits and pieces into a housefly. Here is a photo of one he made and placed on a wall. You just know this guy is a fly fisherman.
2506. wabbit - Aug. 7, 1998 - 9:37 PM PDT
cont.
He probably lives in an incredibly tidy house. One of his pieces, “Dustball”, 1994, is exactly what you'd expect: a ¾” sphere made of house dust. Did I mention that “Dustball” comes with it's own environment, a 14”square of sifted dust? How about a starburst made out of thousands of toothpicks, “Untitled”, 1995. In fact, here are ten pieces by Friedman, some of which you've already seen if you've been following the links.
Alright, for all my mockery, I have to confess a fondness for the man. I've seen a fair amount of his work and it always makes me smile. The time involved in the creation of these things is staggering and the craftsmanship is exquisite. The “craft” aspect separates Friedman from Duchamp, the scale separates him from Schwitters. It is the humor and the attention to and use of the ordinary object to create/recreate/obliterate another object that I enjoy. The pencil shaving is beautiful. I don't really care whether it still constitutes a pencil, the beauty is a separate feature from the “pencilness” of the original object. Enough mental masturbation: discuss.
2507. senecio - Aug. 9, 1998 - 12:29 PM PDT
Wabbit, thanks for posting those links to Bacon, Titian and the Louisiana Museum. I felt a bit guilty for not illustrating my own references, but I'll try harder next time.
I did enjoy your introduction to Friedman. That brings forth another reference. In L.A. there is a so called Museum of Jurassic Technology, a confusing name for one of the oddest, funniest places on earth, lovely chronicled in Lawrence Weschler's (yes, him again) "Mr. Wilson's Cabinet of Wonder". I think the Museum's owner-funder-runner and Friedman may be kindred spirits of sorts. Perhaps some of Friedman's works are featured there. Anyway, they should be...
2508. AzureNW - Aug. 10, 1998 - 3:51 PM PDT
wabbit -
Re: Message #2505
I noticed that all of Tom Friedman's works you have linked to above photograph very well, especially close up. Looking at the close up shots of the surface of the sculptures, then looking at the photos of the whole sculptures, gives me a sense that the scupltures can be viewed as three dimentional photographs of beautiful, shadowed textures and shapes.
2509. AzureNW - Aug. 10, 1998 - 3:56 PM PDT
Even the silly little dust ball is very photogenic. I agree that the pencil shaving is wonderful.
2510. KurtMondaugen - Aug. 10, 1998 - 11:19 PM PDT
senecio:
I've posted links to the Museum of Jurassic Technology here before. Wonderful place. "...Cabinet of Wonder" is a good read, but I'd recommend some the Museum's own imprint's collections of archaic ephemera far more highly to get a direct idea of what's happening there. Thanks for bringing it up.
2511. senecio - Aug. 11, 1998 - 7:12 AM PDT
I'll try to get my hand on those, Kurt, thanks.
2512. KurtMondaugen - Aug. 11, 1998 - 7:41 AM PDT
senecio:
Try here. I'm especially fond of the letters to the Mt. Wilson observatory volume, FWIW.
2513. wabbit - Aug. 12, 1998 - 11:24 AM PDT
Seamus,
Here is "Holy Family on the Steps", 1648. Patience required, this image takes a while to open. Some sources have this painting listed as one of Poussin's, but there is some doubt, so the Nat'l Gallery lists it as a follower of Nicolas Poussin.
Azure,
I think the single Friedman piece in the corner of MOMA's little gallery gets lost. The best way to see them in person is in a gallery setting where there are several pieces available. The cumulative effect works in Friedman's favor. Otherwise, unlike most art, web-viewing isn't too bad, because they *do* photograph well, as you noticed.
2514. Seamus - Aug. 12, 1998 - 1:52 PM PDT
wabbit,
once again--that's it!
So, why does this appeal to me? The bright primaries, the movement lower left to upper right, the male in shadow, the shadow on the woman's face at left. Go figure.
But thanks, wabbit. See you later.
2515. senecio - Aug. 12, 1998 - 5:26 PM PDT
Kurt, I got no response from the server, but will try later. Thanks.
Seamus and Wabbit: quite interesting what aspects of a painting attract different viewers. I would have gone those colors and movement from lower left to upper right at once, but Seamus made me see those shadows.
BTW I must confess I have always suffered from a mild case of Poussin-insensitivity. I cannot think of other artists of comparable reputation that move me less. I can see all the points stressed by Poussin commentators but remain oddly untouched. What seems to put me off is the feeling that there is sensousness, elegance and proportion in Poussin but it all adds up to a fundamental stiffness. Yet this one was somehow different. Maybe it's the beginning of my cure.
2516. WonderSponge - Aug. 15, 1998 - 12:49 AM PDT
Hey y'all!
This thread has a very nice discussion and I'm going to be rude and interrupt. I just have a question:
Has anyone heard of the musical "Brundibar" written during the Holocaust and performed by children interred at Terezin? I'd be interested in any comments or opinions regarding this production. My daughter recently tried out and obtained a solo part with a traveling theater group. I'm concerned about general reactions to the actors as well as the subject matter. She's only ten. Anything y'all might have to offer would be appreciated.
Sorry to butt in...
Sponge
2517. wabbit - Aug. 15, 1998 - 9:07 AM PDT
"Brundibar" is a children's opera, written in 1939 by Hans Krasa for the children of an Jewish orphanage in Prague. The story is about two children who earn money to support their sick mother by singing in the streets of their small village. The money is stolen by an evil organ grinder, the title character Brundibar. With the help of other village children and a band of magical animals, the children outsmart and overcome Brundibar. If your daughter has a basic knowledge of the Holocaust, she will see the parallels. Ultimately, it is an uplifting story about spiritual faith and good winning out over evil. I have not seen the opera, but I would imagine the general reaction would be positive.
The opera was performed several times in Terezin by children before they were sent to Auschwitz. Krasa was sent to Terezin in 1943 and died in Auschwitz in 1944.
2518. labarjare - Aug. 16, 1998 - 7:15 PM PDT
Mondaugen and Wabbit - we have tried to e-mail each of you tonight but keep being told that the server may not be working. Let us know if you don't receive an e-mail from us. Mr. and Mrs. Lab.
2519. wabbit - Aug. 16, 1998 - 8:13 PM PDT
Nothing as of yet, LabJ.
2520. Philistine - Aug. 22, 1998 - 4:36 PM PDT
I've been wondering lately about working in different media, and whether any are inherently superior to others - for instance, is a mass-produced medium designed for temporary installations neccesarily a bad choice?;
2521. Philistine - Aug. 22, 1998 - 4:38 PM PDT
And I swear, I checked twice, but that semi-colon that I didn't type, and wasn't in my editing box insisted on appearing in the preview and actual post.
I swear, this forum is buggier than an ant farm.
2522. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 23, 1998 - 12:46 PM PDT
Here's a look at Nebraska Art... if anyone is interested...
MONAt; Museum Of Nebraska Art.
2523. SharonSchroeder - Aug. 23, 1998 - 12:47 PM PDT
Phil, I just had the same problem... only mine is a 't' and a semi-colon....
2524. trouserPilot - Aug. 24, 1998 - 1:46 PM PDT
In between ballgames in Anaheim last week, my dad and I had a chance to spend a few hours at the Getty Center in L.A. ... The complex was interesting and fun. The site is beautiful, and we could almost see downtown L.A. through the haze. I thought the concept behind the little "background info/resource" rooms in each of the museum's wings was clever. It was heartening to see kids using the terminals.
Favorite exhibits: "Making Architecture," about the creation of the Center itself; and the Walker Evans photographs.
Apparently the crowds have died down somewhat. We went on Thursday, arriving a few minutes before they opened the doors at 11 a.m., and had no problem negotiating the rooms and corridors.
2525. mizelsayes - Aug. 24, 1998 - 2:40 PM PDT
hi,you all
discussion in the fray is very interresting
I'd like to ask you all about your look to the arabic handwritting
and all its forms as it is considered as an important art in the
arabic countries.
thank you all.
2526. Jenerator - Aug. 24, 1998 - 2:43 PM PDT
Mizel,
Have you posted #2525 in the Language thread too? If not, you should! There are plenty of people that speak Arabic over there.
2527. Philistine - Aug. 24, 1998 - 4:19 PM PDT
From the FAIR website, the dark side of where "art" and commerce collide (thanks for the link, CLLRDR) -
" Disney plans to exploit the "synergies" of ESPN much as it has exploited its cartoon characters. "We know that when we lay Mickey Mouse or Goofy on top of products, we get pretty creative stuff," Eisner states. "
I don't see how he can be using the word creative to mean anything besides lucrative in this context.
2528. trouserPilot - Aug. 24, 1998 - 4:38 PM PDT
Funny -- All I get when I lay Goofy on top of products is ... moist products.
2529. Philistine - Aug. 24, 1998 - 4:42 PM PDT
I thought you were Tigger's, you slut!
2530. Philistine - Aug. 26, 1998 - 4:41 PM PDT
Yay! At long last, a new issue of "Tug and Buster" has been released!
Marc Hempel is a brilliant cartoonist, as demonstrated by his art for Mark Wheatley's "Breathtaker", Neil Gaiman's "The Kindly Ones" and his own "Gregory." "Tug and Buster" is about the world's two most obnoxious he-men, Tug (the strong silent one) and Buster (the puny bigmouthed one). The comic is, naturally, an exploration of American machismo in all it's warts and glory. Very funny stuff, with plenty of belly laughs for both the lowest and highest brows. This issue involves their sensitive, grily-man friend Stinkfinger dragging them against their wills to an art museum, in the hopes that they will find some culture. Hilarity and hijinks ensue, and I bet you can guess what they do with Duchamp's stuff...
2531. Adrianne - Aug. 27, 1998 - 8:52 AM PDT
Desperately seeking KurtMondaugen.
2532. wabbit - Aug. 27, 1998 - 8:55 AM PDT
Ad, he's in NYC right now. Do you need info?
2533. Adrianne - Aug. 27, 1998 - 8:57 AM PDT
Wabbit
Ah, yes. I'll contact labjare.
No, I just wanted to lead him to my brother's new website, which deals with freeform jazz. Also, I think brother man is playing in NYC this weekend, and thought he and the missus might enjoy the gig.
2534. wabbit - Aug. 27, 1998 - 9:03 AM PDT
Ad, I think Labj is away right now as well. I just sent you info at hotmail.
2535. Adrianne - Aug. 27, 1998 - 11:00 AM PDT
Wabbit
Got it, and thanks. I'll miss them, I guess. :-(
2536. AzureNW - Aug. 27, 1998 - 11:18 AM PDT
I met Christina at Herbie Gee's club on Broadway. She was underage, too, working the day shift. We liked eachother immediately, recognizing the contrasts and complements between us. She was tall, the same height I am, but very thin, with long, pale blonde hair and clear, coffee-brown eyes. She was a wise and sharp-edged daughter of a successful commercial land developer in Tuscon who had drifted to San Franciso with a troop of actors after the close of some musical show in Mexico they performed in, “Jesus Christ, Superstar” I think. She tried a couple of times to get me interested in listening to her sing and dance her role, but I never could help laughing at her. I was sorry, but it was just too corny to watch her belting out a show tune that way.
Christina was having a problem with an ex-boyfriend who was threatening to beat her up, so she needed a roommate. So did I. We rented an apartment in North Beach above a Chinese grocery store. It had one bedroom that we time-shared, one of us sleeping in the living room one month, the other the next.
2537. alistairConnor - Aug. 27, 1998 - 1:01 PM PDT
... please go on Az? That's a very promising start.
2538. alistairConnor - Aug. 27, 1998 - 1:05 PM PDT
... I feel like an intruder here, but I have a friend (actually a close friend of a close friend) who is going to be exposing his work in NY in a couple of weeks, so I thought I would solicit comments ... Flaye (pronounced: Fly)
2539. AzureNW - Aug. 27, 1998 - 1:41 PM PDT
Christina had worked down the street at a Middle Eastern belly dance club for a few months and was very impressed by the skill and grace required for traditional belly dancing. She dragged me into the club a few times to see some of her favorite performers, gripping my arm and pointing out specific steps, talking in reverent tones about how difficult and exhausting it had been to dance there, even two or three nights a week. I wasn't as impressed as she wished I was. The style was too ethnic for me to understand. I didn't like the music and I despised the customers, being convinced at the time that Muslims were all religious fanatics and loathsome oppressors of women. Nevertheless, when she signed up for a series of belly dance classes through a university extension service, I decided to go with her. She was right, I was quite a bit more impressed when I tried to do the steps myself.
We were also able to take modern and ballet classes at the Spectrum Dance Theater in the Mission District. The dance company offered amateur classes and workouts in the afternoons for $4 per session, or you could buy a punch card for twenty classes, sort of like a punch card for lattés or dry cleaning. It was really fun, so much more enriching and so much more of a workout than an aerobics class. Christina wasn't as impressed by the formal classes as I was. She had taken years of ballet as a child as well as other training for theater, and thought that my dabbling in ballet and modern dance would only confuse my stage presence and personality. I didn't care.
2540. AzureNW - Aug. 27, 1998 - 3:36 PM PDT
ONE two three four
FIVE six seven eight
Besides a lot of great exercises, one thing I have learned from taking dance classes that I don't think I would have figured out for myself is a subtle sense of where my body is positioned in space, a way of visualizing my whole physical presence. It's a good counterbalance to the sense of being a single point of consciousness driving some kind of animal interface that I get from visualizing abstractions of software all day.
2541. AzureNW - Aug. 27, 1998 - 4:15 PM PDT
++++++++
We were both pretty impressed with the dancers who worked at Herbie's at night, with their rehearsed routines and live music. Every one of the women who worked for Herbie was beautiful and unique. It's funny now to think of myself then, aspiring to be as beautiful and highly skilled as a stripper as each of them was.
Eventually, girls moved on and Christina and I both moved up to the night shift. It was exciting and very snit-filled to join the snooty, dazzling pros in their dressing room. Of course, everything about me had to be carefully denigrated, down to the lack of polish on my toenails. I had to wedge my kit into the darkest corner of the makeup table and do without a real chair for a couple of weeks. I went absolutely crazy with a sewing machine making costumes. Some turned out pretty well. I still have several of them in a trunk in my garage.
2542. AzureNW - Aug. 27, 1998 - 4:45 PM PDT
A scarlet red sequined dress with a red feather boa; a black skirt made of fringe and a wide-brimmed black hat; a weightless, floating gold duster made of 12 yards of sheer and shimmering lamé; an indigo blue outfit that's nothing but scarfs…
2543. AzureNW - Aug. 27, 1998 - 4:51 PM PDT
It was Christina's agent that set up the trip to Las Vegas. He wanted to send us to Japan, but I didn't want to go, for any amount of money.
2544. KurtMondaugen - Aug. 31, 1998 - 11:47 AM PDT
Those in the NYC area should get thee down posthaste to the NE corner of W. Broadway and Grand and look up. The currently "fashionable" Rachel Whiteread has a public installation on view on a neighboring rooftop that was definitely a highlight of our recent 'sensory input overload' tour of the city. Whiteread has earned her reputation by making polyeurethane casts of various 'spaces', eg. the spaces underneath chairs and tables, the interiors of various tubs, and in one monolithic large-scale effort, the interior of an entire house. For this current project, she has cast the inside of one of Soho's ubiquitous rooftop water towers in a translucent green polymer, and the quiet power of the piece is stunning. During the day, when the light is good, the object has a fascinating, alien quality both fragile (blue sky can be seen through its deceptively thin-looking walls) and malevolent (due to its scale and, again deceptive, uniformity). By night, though, it is positively luminous, with a muted resonance that is authentically haunting and sad. A real knockout of a piece, far more than a simple artist's gimmick (as some of Whiteread's pieces lean towards) and one of the finest examples of public art I've seen in a considerable amount of time.
2545. KurtMondaugen - Aug. 31, 1998 - 12:00 PM PDT
My apologies...this link should have been attatched to the bit about the "monolithic, large-scale effort". Enjoy.
2546. AzureNW - Aug. 31, 1998 - 12:49 PM PDT
Re: msg num 2536 story addendum
Actually, we never really implemented the timeshare arrangement. We moved out of the apartment over the Chinese grocery store after three or four months. Christina never really lived there. She moved in with another guy almost immediately. I bought a car, a red 1972 VW bug, the best used car I have ever owned. The engine was reliable and so easy to understand. Dead battery? No problem. Park on a hill. Start rolling, pop the clutch, and off you go…whisss….whisss….whisss….whisss….whisss…
Then I moved into a big Victorian house full of Marxists on the Golden Gate park panhandle, but that's another story that doesn't have much to do with art.
It's hard to determine how to fold and unfold a true story in a way that conveys true meaning without digressing. For example, there was actually an eleven month separation between the events of meeting Christina at Herbie's and contracting to perform with her in Las Vegas. And, of course, the dressing room full of “dazzling pros” was in Las Vegas, not at Herbie's. All of the women who worked for Herbie were single mothers with day jobs and students, like I was. Nothing dazzling or professional about us. Althought we did have cool costumes and a live band on the weekends.
Altogether, I lived in San Fransico four and a half years before returning to Seattle. My son was adopted by a family who lives in Oakland.
I continued to take dance classes throughout college and wish I still could. I love dance concerts, but I usually have to watch them alone. Dance isn't a very popular art form.
2547. trouserPilot - Aug. 31, 1998 - 2:18 PM PDT
adrianne
If you ever stumble back in here, I would dearly love to check out your brother's website.... You have my e-mail address, yes? (If you don't have my "real" one, please use Floyd's.
2548. trouserPilot - Aug. 31, 1998 - 2:19 PM PDT
(I guess I could've made that reqest via e-mail, but I get a thrill whenever I can reveal that I'm part of the in-crowd.)
2549. Adrianne - Aug. 31, 1998 - 7:47 PM PDT
TP
INCOMING!
Great posts!
I agree!
Hi, Tp!
Check your email!
heh heh heh
2550. KurtMondaugen - Aug. 31, 1998 - 7:50 PM PDT
Hey, Ad...
I wanna see your brother's website too, you know.
2551. Msivorytower - Aug. 31, 1998 - 7:52 PM PDT
Adrianne!
Me too, please.
Hey guys!
No incoming, sorry.
2552. Adrianne - Aug. 31, 1998 - 7:55 PM PDT
Kurt, CousinIt
Both of your email addresses are on my work addressbook - email me with the addresses at either my work or home address, and I'll send it right away.
Nice to see you both, btw.
MsIt, I've found you were correct about a lot of stuff you told me re babies and hormones. Yeeeeoooww.
2553. Msivorytower - Aug. 31, 1998 - 8:00 PM PDT
Adrianne
Will do.....
A trial, ain't it? I found it took me about a year (and a few months) to get back to the level of focus and concentration I maintained prior to the hormonal tidal wave.
Not to depress you or anything! (<-Insert stupid grinning thing here)
2554. Adrianne - Aug. 31, 1998 - 8:02 PM PDT
MsIt
Mostly it's the sappy stuff. I find myself misting over television commercials that show incubators. Firf.
Oh, and to get on topic - I got my Van Gogh tickets today.
2555. Msivorytower - Aug. 31, 1998 - 8:05 PM PDT
Adrianne
Cool art show (on topic comment).
Sigh, sorry to say that the sappy effects STILL linger (after 10+ years). I now believe I've been permanently damaged by the birthing process.
gag......
2556. Adrianne - Aug. 31, 1998 - 8:10 PM PDT
Yes, I'm looking forward to the show (on topic)
Sigh. So much for my carefully cultivated, devil-may-care, charmingly cynical style.
I also smell like baby spew.
2557. Philistine - Aug. 31, 1998 - 9:21 PM PDT
Adrianne -
Me too! Me too!
Kurt -
That's quite a link. I mean, I've done studies of negative space, but...
2558. Philistine - Aug. 31, 1998 - 9:23 PM PDT
Adrianne -
Me too, I want the link to your brothers' website. So far as I know, I don't smell like baby spew. However, I have vicious hay fever, and so I'm not completely sure of that.