2348. labarjare - July 1, 1998 - 8:18 AM PDT
One only hopes that Hammer died knowing that he hadn't had time to clean up all of his messes so that they wouldn't be uncovered after his death. And, boy - it didn't take long.
Of all the egregious things he did in his life, I think that the way he took his wife's money to finance his early ventures (and, as I recall, his initial stake in OxyPete) and then, of course, dumped on her in about as many ways a husband could tops the list.
Ah well, yep - he's dead.
Avoidance of estate and gift taxes is a great motivation for the rich. Even more reason to make those taxes even higher - confiscatory in nature imo. We wouldn't have all the great museums we have otherwise. (That is a sort of a sidebar for some who will go nameless.)
2349. RobertDente - July 4, 1998 - 8:22 AM PDT
FYI DEPTARTMENT:
Whitney Museum Cancels Karen Finley Exhibit By MEL GUSSOW
NEW YORK -- The Whitney Museum of American Art has canceled "The Great American Nude," an environmental exhibition featuring the visual an performance art of Karen Finley that had been scheduled to open in December.
The announcement was made on Thursday by Willard Holmes, the Whitney's acting director. "It was not just a financial decision, but finances had something to do with it," he said. "We had to reduce the amount of programming because in April we go into the Project of America," a series of major shows dealing with the history of art in the United States in the 20th century.
Holmes said the decision had nothing to do with the content of Ms. Finley's contribution or any other part of the exhibition. Nor, he said, was the cancellation related to a U.S. Supreme Court ruling last week against Ms. Finley and three other performance artists.
In its decision, the court upheld a decency test for the awarding of federal arts grants. Artists have suggested that institutions like galleries and theaters might use the decision as a means to limit their artistic freedom.
Thomas Healy, Ms. Finley's gallery representative, said that Adam Weinberg, the curator of the museum's permanent collection, had told him on Wednesday that the Whitney was unable to raise the money -- from $300,000 to $400,000 -- needed to put on the show.
But Healy expressed surprise at the Whitney's "insensitivity" in deciding to cancel it. He suggested that actually "this would be a good time to mount an exhibition in defiance of the ruling," and he called the cancellation "a little too bizarre to be a coincidence."
2350. RobertDente - July 4, 1998 - 8:25 AM PDT
[Finley cont'd...]
He added that the exhibition had been the idea of David Ross, the outgoing director of the Whitney, and that Ross had been in charge of the financing. Weinberg and Eugenie Tsai had been scheduled to be the curators of the show.
Healy said that Weinberg had informed him that the museum was preparing a letter to Ms. Finley expressing its disappointment.
At the center of "The Great American Nude" exhibition would have been Ms. Finley's "Go Figure," an installation of a class in life drawing. Continuing through museum hours, the life class would have been led by Ms. Finley, who would herself have been one of the artists' models.
Any member of the public visiting the museum would have been eligible to take part as an artist in the class and Ms. Finley would have been available to criticize the work. This part of the exhibition was to be a re-creation of a show that Ms. Finley had presented last year at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los Angeles.
Surrounding the class at the Whitney would be paintings, drawings, sculpture and photographs of nudes from the museum's permanent collection. Ms. Finley's own paintings and drawings were also to be displayed, possibly with works by emerging artists whose work is not in the Whitney collection.
Ms. Finley had also been planning a performance event to take place during the exhibition, probably a takeoff on Marcel Duchamp's "Nude Descending a Staircase," to be portrayed by the artist in a stairway at the Whitney. Healy had been planning a concurrent exhibition of Ms. Finley's work at his gallery, the Thomas Healy in the Chelsea section of Manhattan.
2351. RobertDente - July 4, 1998 - 8:26 AM PDT
[Finley cont'd...]
Ms. Finley has shown her paintings (of flowers as well as nudes and other subjects) and has had art installations at various museums and galleries around the country. "It's astonishing the way the decision was made," she said on Thursday, adding that the cancellation would be extremely damaging to her career. "The Whitney is the leading museum for American art in this country and the world," Ms. Finley said. "By not having my show, the museum is saying, 'She can't be funded, and our board can't fund her."' She indicated that she believed other museums would take that as a guideline for future exhibitions.
[This atricle appeared in The NY TIMES July 4th 1998]
2352. glendajean - July 4, 1998 - 10:52 AM PDT
Robert -- thanks, I read that article this morning.
I went to the Whitney last in late May to see the new 5th floor permanent galleries (particularly to the see the Hopper room). That's where most of the people were. There was a couple of installation pieces on lower floors, taking up considerable space. One involved two Japanese artist, naked, slowly moving on the floor of a cave-like setting. Another was based on writing letters and placing them in a slot. Letters to living people were mailed, the rest were "destroyed by the artist." Whatever.
The Whitney is sitting on an incredible amount of 20th century American art that is rarely seen, or is seen only at special exhibitions. I would appreciate the chance to see more of it, and I think the proposed series is valuable.
I think that the take on that art is changing, particularly our understanding of the idea of modernism and its children. American art in this century is quite rich and it would be nice to see it in a context that reflects a re-examination. (imo).
Karen Finley should have every opportunity to do her art. But at the expense of $300,000 - 500,000, I'd pass.
2353. RobertDente - July 4, 1998 - 2:44 PM PDT
Glendaj-
I think that amount represents the cost of mounting any full size contemporary artist's exhibition which is usually underwritten by a corporate or wealthy benefactor.
I'm not a Karen Finley fan, but I can't help but wonder if she has become pesona non grata as a result of her loss in the supreme court. The art world is filled with money sucking charlatanry so it's very hard to figure this one out.
I must say I was intrigued with the description of her proposal, being someone that taught figure drawing for a long time.
2354. glendajean - July 5, 1998 - 4:58 PM PDT
I did not know that KF painted. I had heard about her use of chocolate, and I've read some of her comments about the case and Jesse Helms which (as much as I detest JH) seemed a little over the edge.
Given what little I know about her, I wouldn't want to go to one of her life drawing classes. She is quoted in the NY Times article as saying, "By not having my show, the museum is saying, 'She can't be funded, and our board can't fund her." That is probably true.
There is also alot of Whitney politics going on, with the exit of the old director and the incoming one changing things up along with a board chair who is taking a more active role in defining the museum.
I am impressed that you teach figure drawing. Kudos to you!
2355. RobertDente - July 5, 1998 - 7:25 PM PDT
Gj-
I didn't know she painted either. As a matter of fact, I've long held the belief that many contemporary artists have a secret desire to be traditional painters but lack the confidence to try. In this fashionable period of Bad Painting however, it seems that a lot of them are coming out of the performance and installation closets.
2356. glendajean - July 6, 1998 - 10:26 AM PDT
RobertD --
"I've long held the belief that many contemporary artists have a secret desire to be traditional painters but lack the confidence to try."
That's why I appreciate Hopper. His art subject matter is fairly pedestrian, and yet it speaks with a modern sensibility and with a powerful use of blocks of color to bring about the kinds of emotions that someone like Rothko talked about but could never evoke so fully. That he did that while being outside the mainstream of the direction art was going makes him a very interesting character.
From the Gail Levin biography, I gather he fought the abandonment of representational painting in the last decades of his life -- in fact there's a painting here in DC at the Hirshhorn of Hopper and other painters (done around 1965), a group that tried to argue that representation was still relevant, rejecting the modern belief that artists had to destroy everything and start all over. Of course, they seemed at the time to be very reactionary.
It appears to me that his drawing skills were passable, but somehow his sense of what he was painting, again shaped by color, communicates with the viewer.
I saw the 1960 painting "Second Story Sunlight" at the new Whitney permanent gallery, the one of the older woman and the younger woman sitting on a porch balcony in the sun, and the whiteness of light reflected on the frame house was so bright, I almost felt like I had to turn away. That painting has the simplest of details: two gabled roofs (blocks of greenish black), the shadowed walls, his signature of light inside the room seen through a window, the typical blurred forest and blue sky, and the women sitting.
I think Levin said that light in his later paintings represented life, and perhaps that is true, but the work is strong enough that it doesn't have to be interpeted psychologically.
2357. KurtMondaugen - July 6, 1998 - 1:51 PM PDT
Appropos of nothing really, I just found out that the big Yayoi Kusami show will be on display at MOMA during our stay in Manhattan next month. I just thought I'd mention that this makes me very, very happy.
2358. RobertDente - July 7, 1998 - 7:23 AM PDT
Kurt- I'm happy for you.
Glendaj-
I probably should define what I meant above by "traditional." I didn't mean, necessarily, that traditional ='s representational. I was referring to abstract painting as traditional as well. I think that too much of contemporary art has been stripped down into banal esoteric gestures which are even more degraded by their impoverishment of ideas, skill and cowardice to grapple with life. They lack continuity with all that is great in the history of art. (Rant over!)
2359. glendajean - July 7, 1998 - 9:31 AM PDT
Robert,
And I certainly don't reject non-representational art. But a lot of new stuff I see feels like a one-note joke. My comments on Hopper reflect my own feeling that here was somebody who did modern things in a tradition that goes way back. (and I've been thinking about his work lately).
Isn't Bonnard sort of like that, too?
2360. RobertDente - July 7, 1998 - 12:06 PM PDT
Gj-
Oh yes, I didn't disagree with your points; I was only trying to clarify mine. I also think Bonnard translated his world in a modern way also. I still believe in the power of paint as a plastic medium which can change one's awareness of life. The problem, I think, for the contemporary artist is the years of struggle to develop a silent language which our culture generally overlooks because of the clamor of newer media and the obscurity of the older form. Such is life: Seven times down; eight times up!
2361. RobertDente - July 7, 1998 - 2:09 PM PDT
FYI Dept.
A link to a description of Yayoi Kusami.
2362. PsychProf - July 8, 1998 - 2:23 PM PDT
Very moving, Robert.
2363. RobertDente - July 8, 1998 - 2:31 PM PDT
PP- What was moving? The link? Or my rantings? (And are we talking about bowel movements?) [g]
(P.S. And there was nothing personal wrt my shot at you in Suggestions btw. I know you care and I know you are a thoughtful man.)
2364. KurtMondaugen - July 8, 1998 - 5:30 PM PDT
Thanks for the link, Robert. Here's a detail from a recent installation of hers done at the Matress Factory. Keep in mind that this balloon alone is 30' x 10', and that there were 4 other balloons in the room, crowding out spectators.
2365. coralreef - July 8, 1998 - 5:32 PM PDT
Robert -
Message #2333
Who said it??
2366. labarjare - July 8, 1998 - 5:33 PM PDT
glendajean - it would appear that you are one of those who has decided to stay around for at least a while. If so, I would be interested (in my own sporadic way because I sure ain't gonna be here much or for long when here) in discussing your reactions/conclusions re Rothko and color. Up above you mentioned that Rothko in your view failed to fully express emotion through his use of color.
Limiting myself (which I think is appropriate since it is a very large part of his work) to his middle works, I couldn't disagree with you more. I sometimes can look at only one band of one of his three or four banded paintings and just marvel at the nuances and depth of feeling he can get out his uses of color in a given band. This is true even of the darker hued bands. I almost always start out thinking of one of those middle period Rothkos as being a rather composed end result. I end up thinking that all that calm and tranquility is just a surface mirage masking an extreme volatility - both in terms of the interplay of colors within bands and in juxtaposition to one another and the perimeter color etc. and in the shapes and in the ragged edges etc.
I guess it is pretty clear that I like Rothko.
2367. RobertDente - July 8, 1998 - 8:19 PM PDT
CR- G.K. Chesterton... Happy Birthday!!!
Thanks Mon!
Lab- "(in my own sporadic way because I sure ain't gonna be here much or for long when here)"
What the hell does *that* mean?
2368. glendajean - July 9, 1998 - 11:32 AM PDT
Lab,
What I meant to say in the post you referred to was that Hopper was able to articulate very powerful emotions and moods (and yet, he was incredibly taciturn when it came to talking about his art or anything else), while Rothko (who was very talkative about his formal theories and who emphasized that he was specifically working in expression of thoughts and feelings, and demanded to not be understood as a colorist) never reached the same level of communication or expression. He was doing something else with his work, yet he wanted it to be known for what it was expressing.
That's my opinion on looking at these two artists' who painted at about the same time. (Hopper was older, raised a Baptist in late Victorian Nyack, NY, and Rothko was more grounded in modern thought). But of course, their individual undertanding of art was completely different from each other, their approach was completely different. I doubt if they ever met, but it would have been an interesting conversation, providing one could get Hopper to talk. I enjoy looking at Rothko's work -- but I discount his philosophy explaining it.
To step into Rothko's panels (as a viewer) is to suspend language, to meditate on the pools of color, both harmonizing and in conflict with each other. Language and narrative (thus, a traditional sense of communication) is broken, which of course, is one way that art is powerful.
My main intent was to speak well of Hopper (often discounted) and how while painting in a more traditional manner he was able to speak of modern life. We've reduced him to the cliche of "Night Hawk" in the culture, but I think that his work deserves better appreciation than the once a decade show.
I didn't mean to slam Rothko, and I certainly enjoyed reading your comments about his work.
2369. CalGal - July 9, 1998 - 11:39 AM PDT
I'm on my monthly trek through the Arts thread. I love it here, even though I never know what you're talking about. But the links are great.
Thanks to Robert and Kurt, now I know who Yayoi Kusama is. (If I just knew how to pronounce her name, I could even show off this knowledge IRL. Sigh.)
BTW--glenda, I agree about Karen Finley. She can be way out there wacko. When I read the news, I too wondered if it was a case of kicking her while she was down, or an indication of the fact that she isn't very good. (as if I would know, if it were the latter.)
2370. RobertDente - July 9, 1998 - 1:08 PM PDT
C_G- YahYohee Koosahmee
Try dropping it the next time you're havin' sushee... or buying a polka dot accessory!
2371. arkymalarky - July 9, 1998 - 8:26 PM PDT
I just got back from an outdoor performance of Shakespeare's Twelfth Night by an Arkansas troupe, and it was very good. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the acting and direction. I was not aware that we had such a talented group in Arkansas. Past local performances of Shakespeare plays I've seen have been sort of disappointing, but this one was fun and interesting from start to finish.
2372. RobertDente - July 10, 1998 - 6:27 AM PDT
"This fellow's wise enough to play the fool;
And to do that well craves a kind of wit."
2373. arkymalarky - July 10, 1998 - 7:46 AM PDT
I like that quote, Robert. Shakespeare was a master of that "kind of wit." Offhand, I can't think of one clown or comic character in Shakespeare who didn't work for me. I teach Hamlet every year and the gravediggers crack me up every time I read them. The actor who played Sir Toby Belch in Twelfth Night was particularly good last night.
I was reading their ad paper, and this same troupe is going to perform "Waiting for Godot" in July. I'm going to have to head to LR for that one. I think they'll do a wonderful job with it.
2374. RobertDente - July 10, 1998 - 9:07 AM PDT
ark-
I confess to the poets' preoccupation with death also and the smile of a skull is a wonderful joke, me thinks!
and...
I'm also a sucker for Beckett too!
2375. RobertDente - July 10, 1998 - 9:11 AM PDT
arky-
What is the quote about the pin prick of death that spoils the vainglorious plans of the monarch.. yadda yadda? And from which play; do you recall?
(LR = Little Rock?)
2376. RobertDente - July 10, 1998 - 9:13 AM PDT
Delete "also" or "too" in yond former post, please.
2377. arkymalarky - July 10, 1998 - 9:43 AM PDT
I don't know, Robert. I'll check into it. Someone else here will probably beat me to it, though. LR is Little Rock, where it all happens in Arkansas (ha).
Cool links, btw! I love "looking" at your posts.:)
2378. trouserPilot - July 10, 1998 - 9:47 AM PDT
I'm really excited about checking out the Yayoi Kusami exhibit when I'm in NYC. But I still haven't forgiven her for breaking up the Beatles.
2379. RobertDente - July 10, 1998 - 11:13 AM PDT
ark- TA!
LOL!
From todays NYT's Art Section on Kusami-Ono.
2380. labarjare - July 10, 1998 - 7:43 PM PDT
glendajean - sorry to be so long in responding, but I did want to say that I really enjoyed your 2368. I don't profess to know much about Hopper's having been so taciturn, but certainly Rothko was incessant in insisting, as you indicated, that his work was not just colors and abstract. I am at least glad he never really tried to tell you what his given paintings were supposed to mean since I've never really bought into his insistance.
BTW - a very hearty welcome to this small but persistent group. You are a very welcome addition. Maybe senecio will begin posting again soon too.
2381. labarjare - July 10, 1998 - 7:49 PM PDT
Mon - knowing you, you probably are already aware that, predictably, a number of galleries here are also showing a variety of Kusami's works concurrently with the show at MOMA, and that a lot of it will still be up when you are here.
Robert - you queried what I meant about my being here on a sporadic basis etc. No big mystery and no big deal. For a lot of reasons, I have decided to become a lot more "selective" re the amount of time I spend on the Fray and how. It already is making a positive difference in my attitude about it all.
2382. RobertDente - July 10, 1998 - 9:53 PM PDT
Lab- Oh wonderful, I'm so happy for you. I adore the new condescending indigation and "selective" haughtiness. I did so admire your old character and equanimity. I shall miss it.
2383. arkymalarky - July 11, 1998 - 9:01 AM PDT
Robert,
I looked for that quote and couldn't find it. My dad has a book of Bartlett's Shakespeare quotes and he couldn't find it either. If I run across it anywhere I'll let you know. I'm curious about it, now, too.
2384. CoralReef - July 11, 1998 - 7:11 PM PDT
Message #2372
Twelfth Night.
act 3, scene 1. Viola.
2385. RobertDente - July 11, 1998 - 8:31 PM PDT
Reefer- No, we know that that quote is from Twelth Night. We are looking for the exact quote and play of the paraphrase in Message #2375.
Arky- I may have made your task much too dificult because I can't remember the exact words.
2386. arkymalarky - July 11, 1998 - 8:54 PM PDT
Too late, Robert. I'm halfway through my Complete Works of Shakespeare index.
Not really.
How are you coming in your search, CR?
2387. arkymalarky - July 12, 1998 - 4:27 PM PDT
Well, I hunted the web and my books and couldn't find anything like your quote, RD. Are you sure it was Shakespeare? I really thought someone would pop in with the answer.
2388. CoralReef - July 12, 1998 - 4:32 PM PDT
I'm not searching for it arky. I was looking at the Shakespeare homepage for other reasons and took a second to search for the other quote (which I know now wasn't relevant).
Try this, it has a search feature.
2389. CoralReef - July 12, 1998 - 4:35 PM PDT
Ah, I didn't see your most recent post!
2390. arkymalarky - July 12, 1998 - 4:57 PM PDT
Thanks, CR. It just didn't ring a bell with me, but I figured with Bartlett's it would be easy to find. Your link didn't work for me, but it may have been where I was looking or a site similar to it.
2391. RobertDente - July 12, 1998 - 6:31 PM PDT
CR & Arky-
Thanks for trying to scratch my vague mental itch. Maybe if I try to explain the whole idea (because for the life of me I can't remember the exact words).
The mental picture is of a court jester type character laughing at the pretentions and power of the king/monarch and saying in effect that the big joke was the fact that death would burrow into his skull like a worm and rob him of his mortality no matter how much he had or ruled over in this realm.
Ah the hell with it. Let's turn the page!
(I wish a lot of other fragrants around here would turn the page, come to think of it.)
2392. arkymalarky - July 12, 1998 - 6:35 PM PDT
Sounds good to me (turning the page, that is). The theme sounds like it's from Hamlet, which I would be ashamed not to recognize a quote from.
Oh well. That Shakespeare was just too good. If he'd only published a few memorable lines we wouldn't be having this problem. If I run across it anywhere I'll let you know.
2393. RobertDente - July 12, 1998 - 6:37 PM PDT
Alas Poor Dente, I knew him well...yadda yadda yadda!
(Was this too graphic?)
2394. RobertDente - July 12, 1998 - 6:40 PM PDT
Death, where is thy sting?
2395. RobertDente - July 12, 1998 - 6:40 PM PDT
(Was that too graphic?)
2396. arkymalarky - July 12, 1998 - 6:44 PM PDT
Graphic isn't quite the adjective that picture brings to mind.(g)
2397. RobertDente - July 12, 1998 - 6:57 PM PDT
How about:
Paradigm, wish you were here!
2398. cyrusk - July 15, 1998 - 5:12 PM PDT
RobertDente: I have no problem with the links above FYI.
2399. cyrusk - July 15, 1998 - 5:14 PM PDT
RobertDente:
Just realized you probably haven't read my post in "Suggestions." That would help to clarify what I just posted.
Cyrus Krohn
Managing Editor, SLATE
2400. labarjare - July 15, 1998 - 5:52 PM PDT
Ah, Robert. I really don't think that my responding to your question as to why I had apologized for being sporadic in my posts of late called for being characterized as condescending let along haughty. So be it. For me, at least, the choice is either to just call it a day or find a way of participating in those aspects of the Fray that I continue to find enjoyable. I really don't think that selectivity of this type is novel in the annals of the Fray or undesirable. Let those whose lives are deeply wrapped up in the goings on around here continue to wrap. Why is it haughty to say that I want to go a different way?
Different strokes for different people. A necessity on the Fray. Always has been, but definitely true now more than ever. So be it. We only pay to participate here. This is not a social club where inclusion is an end all.
2401. trouserPilot - July 16, 1998 - 8:44 AM PDT
Message #2381 labarjare, re other Kusami exhibits...
What's the best way to find out what and where?
2402. KurtMondaugen - July 16, 1998 - 8:55 AM PDT
tp:
Robert Miller gallery through Aug. 7
Blum gallery through Sept. 26
2403. trouserPilot - July 16, 1998 - 9:39 AM PDT
Thanks, lab.
2404. KurtMondaugen - July 16, 1998 - 9:50 AM PDT
Ever onward.
2405. AzureNW - July 16, 1998 - 11:48 AM PDT
Hi, KurtMondaugen.
This is a gorgeous *azure* day! All the mountains around Seattle are visible. From the Eastside, the Olympics look like a huge tsunami starting to break over the Seattle skyline. The wave looks foam specked, like it's just starting to break between Hurricane Ridge and Mount Olympus. If no one is paying you to sit at a computer today, you should get your bootie out into the sun!
I visited the Seattle Art Museum last week, and will try to post a little review of the Tomas Moran retrospective there with some links later. I would enjoy discussing landscape painting styles a bit, comparing painting styles like Moran's to contemporary artists, like David Hockney (a retrospective of his works are being shown at the Boston Museum of Fine Art this summer.)
2406. wabbit - July 16, 1998 - 3:19 PM PDT
Azure,
I was at the Boston MoFA about two weeks ago. The Hockney (info only, no images) exhibit isn't actually a retrospective, as it consisted of only one room of recent paintings of Yorkshire, a couple multiple panel studies for the large Grand Canyon painting which I think is currently on exhibit somewhere in Washington DC, and some smaller sketches. One painting I particularly liked was "The Road to York through Sledmere," a charming painting of a small village that reminded me of a village I spent a great deal of time in. Hockney is using a lot of orange and ochre colors (and we won't get into *that* right now) but a couple of these paintings are rich with blues, purples and greens. The paintings are full of sinewy lines and blocks of almost flat colors juxtaposed with simple patterns. I am happy he has stopped painting his dogs.
2407. AzureNW - July 16, 1998 - 3:48 PM PDT
wabbit -
Hi!
The recent paintings of Yorkshire must have been some of those I saw mentioned in the news story about Hockney's exhibit in Boston. The pictures I saw were a series of energetic, vividly colored stylized landscapes that capture a lot of texture and convey movement well in his use of perspective. The brilliant color and palpable textures in his works reminds me of Van Gogh's paintings. There is a lush, textile kind of quality to them. There was a Hockney painting of the Grand Canyon mentioned in the news story but not shown that I really would like to have seen and compared to Thomas Moran's version of the Grand Canyon. What do you think of his landscapes? Are there other painters you know of that share a similar style?
I haven't found any of Hockney's landscapes on the internet, but here is a sampling of some other of David Hockney's paintings:
Hockney
2408. Philistine - July 16, 1998 - 10:01 PM PDT
How can comics work on the web? How will each change the other? Scott McCloud has been doing some thinking on the matter.
2409. glendajean - July 17, 1998 - 6:53 AM PDT
The Hockney Grand Canyon painting(s) is on exhibit at the Museum of American Art (the one that shares the old Patent Building with the Portrait Gallery) in Washington, DC.
2410. AzureNW - July 17, 1998 - 1:47 PM PDT
Here we go:
David Hockney at the Boston Museum of Fine Art
2411. AzureNW - July 17, 1998 - 2:23 PM PDT
These are two notable paintings of the Grand Canyon by ninteenth centry American painter, Thomas Moran,
Grand Canyon paintings by Thomas Moran
Thomas Moran's "The Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone"
The Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone
and a review of National Gallery of Art's special exhibit of historic paintings by Thomas Moran by By James T. Yenckel, Washington Post Staff Writer, Sunday, November 30, 1997.
Washinton Post reivew of Thomas Moran
(I hope.)
I saw the retrospective of these and other Thomas Moran paintings the Seattle Museum of Art last week, and would enjoy discussing them, and comparing them to other landscape painting styles, like David Hockney's.
(I'll post some of my impressions of the show in a bit.)
2412. wabbit - July 17, 1998 - 3:43 PM PDT
Thanks, glendajean. I'll be seeing it in a few weeks.
Nice, Phil, one more for the Favorites/Art/Comics folder...
Hey yourself, Azure! Thanks for all the links, too bad we can't link to the New Yorker review as well. Hockney's canvasses are physically quite flat compared to Van Gogh's, though I know what you mean. Looking at Hockney is a different experience from Moran, apart from the obvious color and pictoral differences. I think the Moran landscapes are something you feel you can walk into, whereas Hockney plays with perspective and makes you shift your viewing position constantly without ever feeling "drawn in." Moran's work is almost religious in its portrayal of the grandeur of Nature, from roughly the same period (mid-nineteenth century) and similar to Albert Bierstadt, George Caleb Bingham, Frederic Church, and Thomas Cole. This PBS site has a few examples of each of them, from last year's program "American Visions."
2413. coralreef - July 20, 1998 - 9:26 AM PDT
Food for thought
2414. AzureNW - July 20, 1998 - 6:19 PM PDT
Wabbit,
I would be interested in your impressions of Hockney's study of the Grand Canyon linked to in MSG NUM 2410. In the link it looks like a very large and intensely hued painting that would seem to envelope the viewer in the scene.
Moran's great big panoramas are amazing to see as well, and his watercolors are a daunting lesson.
It's been difficult to find time to post any impressions of the Moran retrospective yet, but I enjoyed the show very much. All of the paintings in the show were impressive, but I found the way his personal style seemed to distill and concentrate in his final works, after his grand panoramas of nature had begun to fall out of fashion partiularly compelling. He refined his images of an enveloping cradle of sky in his later paintings by carefully capturing atmospheric effects and cloud shadows in a way that almost creates a sensation of air moving. Something in the careful coordination of the shadow patterns across the scene with the distribution of clouds in the sky, the attention to the shape and texture of the clouds, and the casual way cloud shadows splash across foreground details, tricks the viewer's mind into feeling the wind direction and speed. Very cool.
2415. AzureNW - July 21, 1998 - 5:53 PM PDT
His later, more personal works also reflect the technique that was incorporated in his first paintings, of appearing to bend the image at the edges of the canvas as though the scene is viewed through a curved lens . The affect is cozy, like a scene inside one of those glass globes filled with water and snowflakes.
Moran's attempt to adapt his own style to the increasingly popular abstract painting styles emerging in the late 1800's shows in a series of dramatic and realistic paintings he made of the open ocean. The encircling curve he put around his natural scenes is still noticeable, but blurred into a more abstract curve of mist and storm. He also seemed to hang on to his realism by adding a little boat to each open ocean scene, probably to give the waves a realistic sense of scale. Nearly all of his paintings, except his watercolor sketches, include something on a human scale, looking kind of ‘starving artist' cliché in a modern context.
2416. AzureNW - July 21, 1998 - 6:02 PM PDT
wabbit -
An interesting comparison between Hockney and Moran, in looking at their differing versions of the Grand Canyon, is that both are 'pop' artists of their times, depicting images of popular culture and using techniques of mass production.
2417. wabbit - July 21, 1998 - 8:20 PM PDT
Azure,
I'm not sure what you mean by "images of popular culture" or "techniques of mass production." I don't think of landscapes as part of popular culture, nor of painting as a method of mass production. Printmaking, yes, and certainly Hockney has availed himself of various printmaking techniques.
I'll reserve statements about Hockney's "Grand Canyon" until I've seen it, which will be in about ten days. I don't think I would say the studies "envelope" the viewer, though I agree that the colors are intense. Hockney has the benefit of having cubism behind him and his work tends to combine multiple perspectives that prevent a sense of envelopement. Rather, you find yourself moving around in front of the painting, looking at it from different angles in order to see the multiple perspectives. It's physically active viewing, but not the kind that makes you want to walk *into* the landscape, as with Moran.
2418. glendajean - July 22, 1998 - 10:12 AM PDT
Wabbit -- that's a great description of the Grand Canyon paintings.
I saw it a couple of weeks ago on a lunch break, and plan to get back one more time. Across the aisle from the new painting are two of the Hockney photo collages that he did back in the 80 of the same setting. Somebody told me that he physically moved the camera in taking each shot, giving it again, the moving perspective that he tried to capture in the paintings.
2419. marjoribanks - July 24, 1998 - 1:38 PM PDT
Today I concluded a deal with an extremely important contemporary Indian artist to purchase his own collection built up over 50 years. I am very happy.
Nobody on this thread will likely have ever heard of him, but then contemporary Indian Art is hardly heard about here except when the major auction houses hold their "Indian Art" sales annually.
I'm going to try and get some of these amazing images on to the web for the enjoyment of all. Till then (I'm thumbing my nose) you'll never understand my glee.
Hahahahahahahaha.
2420. marjoribanks - July 24, 1998 - 1:39 PM PDT
(P.S. Sorry for gloating in such a public and unseemly manner. I have sickened all those around me in real life with it already and am desperate for outlets.)
2421. labarjare - July 24, 1998 - 2:16 PM PDT
Congratulations, Marj!
Call Socko if you haven't already done so.
2422. marjoribanks - July 24, 1998 - 2:21 PM PDT
Lab,
The drawing I showed you is a thin, tiny peak of a veritable iceberg of material. Thanks for the congratulations.
2423. Philistine - July 24, 1998 - 3:25 PM PDT
Sounds fab, Marj. I can hardly wait to see it.
2424. labarjare - July 28, 1998 - 7:00 PM PDT
Well, a little late in the reporting but not in terms of being able to see the show for a while longer. Strongly recommend the Soutine show at the Jewish Museum here in NYC. First retrospective in NYC in 50 years which is hard to understand. We saw the show with an artist friend who via serendipity met two of his artist friends seeing the show at the same time. This added a lot to the enjoyment.
The landscapes in particular are wonderful - full of tension and energy yet confined within well thought out designs.
One annoying aspect (which I am told is typical of the Jewish Museum) was what I thought was an extraordinary stretch in the commentary to tie in Soutine's most harrowing work (dark and forboding canvasses with a single stretched out dead chicken etc.) as being a harbinger or somehow foreshadowing the Holocaust. The problem for me in this is that these paintings were done in the mid-20s, and none of the work that Soutine was doing in the 30s or 40s up to his death is at all the same.
One thing for sure - Francis Bacon was very familiar with the work of the 20s.
2425. alistairConnor - July 28, 1998 - 7:10 PM PDT
Jeezus Marj. Further proof that you are really a fictional character invented by Salman Rushdie.
Written any good e-mail recently?
2426. glendajean - July 29, 1998 - 6:51 AM PDT
lab,
Thanks for the Soutine update. Doesn't the Barnes Foundation have a few? I thought I saw a couple when their traveling exhibit went around a few years ago. Definitely true about the Francis Bacon connection.
2427. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 12:37 PM PDT
I read an amazing poem by Rilke last night based on his "seeing" technique as applied to "Apollo's Torso". Bly, the translator, states that the poem comes from Rilke's love of sculpture and dates from the Paris period. Is this statue in the Louvre? I've been Paris countless times, the Louvre (sigh) never.
thank you in advance.
(incidentally, Rilke worked as Rodin's "secretary" for several early years in the century)
2428. bubbaette - July 31, 1998 - 12:43 PM PDT
Well, Seamus, I see you're too substantive fur us rednecks now. All hoity toity and artsy fartsy. No more 12-oz curls at the local saloon. I hope you're happy. (huff)
2429. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 1:11 PM PDT
bubbaette,
I've a limited amount of insubstantial (quick, teach me the correct prefix) in FC or anywhere for that matter. Ever notice how I can clear a thread by opening my "mouth"? I've been enjoying FC today, so I didn't want to spoil it by speaking. Voyeurism has something to be said for it. I've also been quiet in Religion, and quiet in G&O, and quiet in.... Meanwhile, in Poetry, I've been likened to James Brown. And I *did* spout off in Books, but Books has always *belonged* to me as much as anyone else, while I've been here. And they cannot take it away from me, so there. There is no hope, see? I'm grinning, bubbaette.
mostly.
Sorry, art-people for the out-of-threadness of this, but *she* (pointing finger) started it.
2430. bubbaette - July 31, 1998 - 1:20 PM PDT
Well (sorry art people) just don't forget that I get worried about you when I don't see you for a while
yrs sincerely
Mother Superior
PS CUUUUUUT the Cake!
2431. wabbit - July 31, 1998 - 1:27 PM PDT
Seamus,
Poem title, please -- "Archaic Torso of Apollo"?
2432. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 1:32 PM PDT
wabbit, yes, as translated from the German. The poem is luminous and makes me want to see the statue.
2433. glendajean - July 31, 1998 - 1:32 PM PDT
Seamus,
I've always enjoyed reading you in Poetry. I don't comment because I am not a poet, but it's obvious that you have been quite the supporter and mentor to those who write in that thread.
People can give all kinds of advice, and some of the advice you got yesterday was, to be honest, quite patronizing. Say what you want, when you want it.
As far as I can tell, you don't put others down, and you have a much different perspective than us 'Muricans. More power to you!
2434. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 1:43 PM PDT
glendajean,
(sorry art people, but if I take this to the corner, I will be exsanguinated)
First, thank you--that is kind. In defence of the Muricans and everyone else, I *did* rather deliberately pick a fight in FC yesterday--it was mostly to test a theory, and I believe I proved my theory. A conclusion I can draw is that I should stay out of FC for the most part and *in* the substantive threads *as long* as I have something *substantive* to contribute. A long time ago, wabbit quite graciously invited me here to Art, but I have generally been a lurker and learner here.
As to poetry, I suppose it is/was patronising, but I am not a published poet, so I cannot claim any special ability etc. The worst thing that happens to me in that thread (or any thread, for that matter) is to be ignored. And, I had just about reached the ignored enough stage to give up. Which is why I say, thank you, again, glenda for being supportive. It is nice to hear a warm voice.
And thank you to wabbit, whom I know is going to answer my question, which was not complete enough in the first place.
I will not take up more Art space on this topic--the personal one, I mean. I am sorry.
2435. TomHewson - July 31, 1998 - 1:58 PM PDT
Seamus,
Welcome to The Arts! I too mostly "lurk" here, rather than post. Might I ask if you are going to compose some poems inspired by the art discussed in here?
2436. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 2:05 PM PDT
Tom,
thank you! Nearly *everything* ends up being an idea source for me, and works of art figure prominently. So do the people who people the discussions! I am obsessed with paintings at this point.
2437. glendajean - July 31, 1998 - 2:06 PM PDT
Seamus -- any particular artist feeding your obsessions?
2438. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 2:12 PM PDT
glendajean,
could you possibly get more electically bizarre than this?
Michelangelo, Titian, Wyeth (A.) for a short list.
2439. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 2:13 PM PDT
and Rothko
2440. glendajean - July 31, 1998 - 2:16 PM PDT
I am not sure that I would out Wyeth (A) in this list, but the rest can be pretty wonderful.
2441. glendajean - July 31, 1998 - 2:17 PM PDT
not "out" -- but "put"
2442. glendajean - July 31, 1998 - 2:18 PM PDT
Seamus, I heard that you come to DC. Do you ever go to the National Gallery?
2443. harper - July 31, 1998 - 2:23 PM PDT
Seamus:
So far I have posted poetry inspired(?) by a bridge, a song, and a book cover. Rilke was inspired by a torso. Knock yourself out. I went to the Met last Sunday to see the Burne-Jones exhibit (OK, so I like Pre-Raphaelites!). I enjoyed it, but found the Brooklyn Bridge more inspiring (she says, ducking the rocks being thrown).
2444. wabbit - July 31, 1998 - 2:36 PM PDT
Seamus,
As to this business of in/out, imho one is exactly as "in" as they choose to be. It really isn't worth worrying about.
Now, getting back to our topic, Apollo was a popular subject and there are many sculptures of him, however, sticking to "archaic" reduces the number severely and I could find only one illustrated online, in the Detroit Institute of Art.
2445. wabbit - July 31, 1998 - 2:51 PM PDT
Hi, all --
Tom, the last time you ventured in here was to tell us you had fallen asleep during, what was it, "The Lion King"? You live not far from NYC, yes? You should have come to the Frayunion, it was quite fun.
Harper, speaking as a current redhead (and thinking about the Pre-Raph's) the Brooklyn Bridge rocks.
glendajean, I was hoping to be in DC this weekend, but my arrangements went awry and my visit is being rescheduled for sometime next month, though depending on which shows close when, I may end up camping out in the Hirschorn garden or sleeping on a church pew. The things we do in order to see art...
Seamus, I have dissed A. Wyeth here fairly recently, so I won't go there again right now, but when he leans toward abstract compositions, he becomes more interesting to me. A few of his landscapes are quite striking. If you say Titian or Michaelangelo loud enough, BullE may reappear, and speaking about the sublimity of Rothko will surely curl PE's hair.
LabJ, although you aren't here right now, I *will* post about the many things I saw this past week, including Bonnard. I am catching my breath.
2446. wabbit - July 31, 1998 - 3:12 PM PDT
One more item, there is an article in the Sunday NYTimes art section titled "Elected Bodies With Hardly a Cultured Bone" that may be of interest to some.
2447. trouserPilot - July 31, 1998 - 3:24 PM PDT
This or last weekend's? (I get so confused as to when the "Sunday" NYTimes actually comes out.)
2448. trouserPilot - July 31, 1998 - 3:26 PM PDT
(P.S. wabbit: I got a couple of great photos. I'll be in touch next week probably about how to get 'em to you.... Not exactly ART, mind you, but close enough.)
2449. TomHewson - July 31, 1998 - 3:28 PM PDT
Wabbit,
I did read that "Elected bodies" piece. Why is there a "Fray union" and who is the shop steward?
With all the mentions of Soutine and Bonnard, allow me to quote from this week's Voice about the Bonnard exhibit: "It reminds me of another little-master retrospective, the stirring one of Chaim Soutine at the Jewish Museum. Now, there was a guy who made painting seem necessary. Soutine's violent restlessness disdains all ideals of beauty -- and strikes sparks of beauty, in fact. For me, there is more erotic pith to a flayed ox by Soutine than to any of Bonnard's poached womanflesh. Bonnard is a stranger to beauty. His stuff isn't even pretty. It isn't vulgar. It isn't much of anything, maybe except expensive." -- Peter Schjeldahl.
2450. wabbit - July 31, 1998 - 3:32 PM PDT
Sorry, TP, this past Sunday, 7/26. It will be available online until late Saturday night, but if anyone wants it and misses it, I will have a copy and can forward the text.
As for photos, yes please!! (perhaps the lack of ART is due to the subject?) I look forward to seeing any/all photos. Also, how can I get a copy of that videotape? Do tell!
2451. trouserPilot - July 31, 1998 - 3:33 PM PDT
Yeah, and it cost an extra four bucks or so to see it!
2452. trouserPilot - July 31, 1998 - 3:35 PM PDT
#2451 follows #2449, otherwise I'm not sure of the implication.
wabbit, actually I only got a few minutes of footage. Someday I'll dub it onto VHS(?) tapes for anyone who wants it. Then they can use the rest of tape to record eight or nine episodes of "The Nanny."
2453. wabbit - July 31, 1998 - 3:37 PM PDT
Tom, you are venturing dangerously close to CharlieL territory with that Fray Union stuff.
I also read the Schjeldahl review. I have a quarter to send him for a clue. More on this later.
2454. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 6:14 PM PDT
glendajean Message #2442
Yes, when I am in DC, the mall area is just about my favourite area to hang about.
2455. Seamus - July 31, 1998 - 6:53 PM PDT
wabbit,
Thank you. I've a little more information now about it. Rilke's title is, indeed, "Archaic Torso of Apollo". However, the introductory text indicates that it was based on his fascination with a piece of sculpture titled "Torso of a Youth from Miletus". So, that is what I am left with.
As to being as in or out as in or out will be, I hear you.
Now, as to the artists I mentioned: a disclaimer--I wasn't asked whether I liked any of their work, I was asked what was currently feeding a creative line. I see a difference. For example, I love Monet, but haven't any lilies urges lately.
But, for example, the restored Michelangelo, with its almost "primal" colours (the word is mine, but I got the feeling from a review several years back) keeps showing up in my words as, you guessed it, primal and primary colours and images. Most poets work in the mauves (a small poetry joke); I can't seem to get past blue and yellow and red. This is not a bad thing for now, but I *am* going to have to deal with the colour wheel eventually.
otoh, in one semi-autobiographical piece, VanDyke tones figure. Go figure.
2456. wabbit - July 31, 1998 - 8:09 PM PDT
Seamus,
Aha! The Miletos Torso *is* in the Louvre and *is* archaic (dates from about 480 BC). I haven't seen a picture of it on the web. I would look in some of my books, but unfortunately the door to the room where the ancient art history books are is currently blocked by a couple hundred pounds of copper plates (which I *do* need to move soon). If you are interested in seeing the statue, and I get the copper moved to a more convenient location, and I do turn up a photo, I will scan it and post it for you. Let me know.
Browns can be very nice, but for color, you can't go wrong looking at Titian.
2457. Seamus - Aug. 1, 1998 - 9:28 AM PDT
wabbit,
I would be *extremely* appreciative. I wish so much to compare the "original" to Rilke's take on it. I want to see what he meant by "glow". He also was taken with the youth's sexuality.
I *must* stop passing through Paris, and stop there some time.
Again, I thank you, wabbit.