In war, planes get shot at, hit and as they crumble the crew must be able to escape if they are to survive. If too many Americans die in a war, you can hang it up, America will cut her losses and run. So we had better stop living in denial, find ways to fight wars and bring our men back alive while we defeat the enemy.

The Russian KA-50 Black Shark (NATO code name: Hokum A -single seat, Hokum B -2 seat) already has helicopter ejection seats. We were the first to create them with the Sikorsky S-72 experimental helicopter, but like typical Americans we were lazy and contined with the status quo and a steady stream of dead aviators. We have no excuse.

"The Ka-50 is the world's first operational helicopter with a rescue ejection system, which allows pilot to escape at all altitudes and speeds. The K-37-800 Rocket Assisted Ejection System is manufactured by the Zvezda Research and Production Enterprise Joint Stock Company in the Moscow Region. The seat operates by pulling the pilot from the helicopter cabin using a solid-propellant rocket motor. The system comprises the seat, a control unit and a pullout rocket motor. The seat is fitted with a survival pack containing an NAZ-7M survival kit, a life raft and a PS-37A parachute system. The seat provides safe forced emergency escape from helicopters in the speed range 0 to 350 km/hour and at altitude 0 to 6,000 metres. The seat also provides safe ejection during inverted flight (at speeds 0 to 330 km/h with zero vertical velocity) at a minimum altitude of 90 metres."

Buy these seats from them and fit into our AH-64D Apaches, OH-58D Kiowa Warriors and RAH-66 Comanches.

TRAINER AIRCRAFT EJECTION SEATS?

Military Plane Crash Kills Two

MIAMI (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy says a small U.S. military training plane crashed, killing its crew of two, after colliding with a similar plane over the Florida Keys yesterday. The two T-34C Turbo Mentor aircraft, from Whiting Field in the Florida panhandle, were on a cross-country training run when they collided in midair near Marathon, Florida, a town about midway between the Florida mainland and Key West. Witnesses say one plane spiraled into shallow water about 100 yards off Tavernier island. One of the crew members, a woman, tried to jump from the aircraft but became entangled in a parachute. The other plane made an emergency landing at an airport near Miami.

PEOPLE RESCUE PODS?

During WWII, the germans were hard-pressed to stay moving to avoid air attacks from Soviet IL-2 Sturmoviks armored attack planes and the Red Army advancing on the ground with T-34 medium tanks.

Greg Goebbel writes:

www.vectorsite.net/avstuka.html+hs+123+armored&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Manufacturing had moved on to the "Ju-87D-3" in late 1942, with this variant featured improved armor protection to optimize for the schlacht role. It did retain the underwing dive brakes but had no bomb crutch and no sirens. Some Ju-87D-3s were converted to "Ju-87D-4" torpedo bombers, but they were not used operationally and were later converted back to Ju-87D-3 configuration. The Ju-87D-3 was used in experiments with personnel pods, with one such pod carried on the top of each wing outboard of the landing gear. Two people could ride in tandem in each pod, and in principle the pods could be released in a shallow dive, to deploy parachutes for a soft landing. The whole scheme was questionable and though the Stuka was evaluated with the pods, apparently they were never paradropped.

Emmanuel.Gustin adds:

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:XR1wv0umFksJ:users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/history/stuka.html+Ju-87D-3+people+pods&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Stuka units also often had to improvise the transport of their own supplies and ground crews. In Germany, enormous overwing pods were developed for this, which allowed the Ju 87 to carry four people. But they remained experimental, and a common solution was too load everything in a DFS 230 glider and tow it behind a Ju 87. For use during the winter, optional ski landing gear was developed, although it was not widely used because it reduced performance. The removal of wheel spats was also common.

In late 30's a Russian biplane R-5 was modified to carry sixteen Paratroops in special compartments fitted onto the lower wing of the aircraft. Each compartment housed two combat-ready men with parachutes. R-5 was flown and performed quite well, achieving speeds of 130 km/h. Additional surfaces were fitted under the lower wing (to compensate for loss in wing's performance).

Similar modification with fewer pods were used on a R-5 that participated in rescue of the Cheluskin's crew, a steamer which got trapped in ice and sunk in 1930s. The crew of the ship (100+) got stuck on the ice in the Arctic. The R-5 was used extensively in the rescue mission and removed a major part of the expedition by air.

During the Korean War, small Bell 47 and Hiller Raven helicopters were able to carry wounded Soldiers to mASH hospital on covered Stokes litters--essentially "people pods"---why not a people pod that attaches to the stub wing hardpoints of an attack aircraft?

The company formerly known as McDonnell-Douglas (swallowed by Boeing) was working on a Ground Rescue Insertion Extraction Resupply pod (GRIER) for its AV-8B Harrier II V/STOL attack jet that would carry two men inside, taking advantage of that aircraft's ability to land and take-off vertically. This pressurized pod on the outer wings like a fuel tank would allow a 4-man LRS or SF special recon team to insert under the cover as being part of an attack jet "strike package", and/or to dart in and rescue downed pilots faster and with better armament than doing a daylight "O'Grady" which was one missile from another mc Desert One-type flaming disaster.

All we are doing is creating a dual-purpose pod that shoots rockets until its needed.

Such rescues have taken place in war--Major Bernard F. Fisher landed his single-seat A-1H Skyraider onto an enemy held runway in Vietnam to pick up a downed pilot and earned the Medal of Honor for it. Click here for a selection of video clips of the awesome Skyraider in action from the official Skyraider home page! German Stuka pilot Hans Rudel did the same kind of rescue in WWII. As wisdom has implied before----"A stitch in time saves nine"--an immediate recovery while the enemy is suppressed is better than waiting for the enemy to use the downed pilot as "bait" and ambush a full-blown rescue effort. The film, "Flight of the Intruder" depicts this common occurence from the Vietnam War.

According to Tom Clancy in Armored Cav; page 275, that U.S. Army Aviators can hook up their flight vests to the skids of a OH-58D gunship (no extra seats) and be extracted out. Current U.S. Army Aviators wear the SRU-21P SARVIP vest which has a life support capable snaplink point that theoretically could be used to connect a Soldier to a helicopter for emergency pick-up. Every Soldier should wear a life-support-capable "Rigger's belt" anyway. The question is: are there any points on the AH-64 Apache or the new RAH-66 for a snaplink to fit through and hold an aviator for a rescue? If not, or if the Soldier is injured, we need a GRIER rocket-rescue pod, put SARVIP vest connection lugs on the outside of the pod so the able bodied can be carried out using their vests. This way each pod could carry an injured Soldier and up to 2 others.

It seems entirely reasonable and desirable that at least one U.S. Army helicopter in every attack flight be equipped with a GRIER R/R pod. The gunner on that helicopter should have a pair of SKEDCO rolled up extraction litters and a M3 aid bag with IVs etc. in the space under the rocket tubes/pod, and have Combat LifeSaver (CLS) training. Upon landing, he could stabilize the wounded aircrew if needed, and if necessary drag them back to the helo pod using the SKEDCO. This is "down and dirty" and he has to be a real "stud", but there is also no reason why a SF 18D medic couldn't be onboard an armed Blackhawk AH-60L Direct Action Penetrator if it were a 160th SOAR mission or USAF Pararescueman (PJ) in a MH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter in a joint mission to give a hand rescuing wounded aircrews. For most cases, the GRIER R/R pod "snatch" would be for an able bodied aircrew calling in for a quick pick-up.

Another purpose for GRIER pods would be the delivery of small "All-Terrain Vehicles (ATVs) under the ESSS wings of the UH-60 Blackhawk so they do not have to be "sling-loaded. A sling load has to be flown gingerly to prevent oscillating. ATVs carried snug up against ESSS wings in roll-on/off pods would be more streamlined and allow the pilits to fly aggressive nap-of-the-earth flight profiles over enemy held territory. This would create an AIRmotorized "Dragoon" capability for U.S. Army Strike forces.

I'm not sure where our GRIER AV-8B 2-man pods R&D stands with boeing gobbling up McD-D..the Brits are pursuing a 1 man pods concept...with parachute delivery, too.

www.avpro.co.uk/Exint.html

Emotive pictures of captured aircrew during the Gulf War have generated a political as well as a military need to rescue downed aircrew.

Avpro, in conjunction with Hunting Engineering and the Defence Evaluation Research Agency (DERA), completed a feasibility study into a pod known as EXINT (extraction/insertion), which can recover aircrew in a rapid manner.

EXINT is a pod primarily designed to provide recovery of downed aircrew, but could also be used for other missions such as the insertion of special forces in out-of-area operations.

EXINT exploits the unique vertical take-off and landing capability of the Harrier, but will also be suitable for use on other aircraft and helicopters such as the UK WAH-64D Apache Longbow attack Helicopter, without any structural modifications to them.The feasibility addressed not only the pod design but also the Aero Medical operational and environmental aspects of recovery/insertion missions.

AVPRO Limited
PO BOX 9128 ACTON London W3 6GE UK
TEL 44 (0) 207 495 6565
FAX 44 (0) 207 394 5349

Email: mikeryan@avpro.co.uk

Farnborough Office

Avpro Limited
Farnborough Innovation Centre
Northgate Road
Farnborough, Hampshire, GU14 6TW

Tel: +44 (0)1252 550040
Fax: +44 (0)1252 550101

U.S. Office

AVPRO Aerospace Inc.
PO Box 15680
Long Beach
CA 90815 USA

Tel: +1 (562) 420-7488
Fax: +1 (562) 420-7644

Email: avproaerospace@mindspring.com

EXINT Pod Equipment

Parachute retarder system
Air Bag landing system
Global Positioning System
Radio
Air conditioning
NBC filtration system
Multi function display panel

EXINT is a one-man pod of some 4 metres in length and is fitted with internal equipment such as radio and air conditioning systems. An equipment bay also allows small arms and other personal equipment to be carried. A state-of-the art parachute and airbag system, developed from the Mars Lander Space Craft programme will allow the pod to make a soft landing should it be released from the aircraft in an emergency situation.

In today's uncertain world, there are few items of cost-effective equipment that can offer the world's armed forces, the multi-role versatility, and flexibility of EXINT.

http://ebird.dtic.mil/Oct1998/s19981028pods.htm

London Sunday Times
October 25, 1998

Attack Pods Drop In On The Enemy: High-tech capsules could parachute Soldiers into action on clandestine missions or be used to rescue downed pilots. Report by Mark Prigg

Parachute pods that turn into stealth boats could soon be used to deliver troops to attack enemy warships.

Each pod contains one Soldier, his equipment and breathing system. The pods can be attached to the side of Harrier jump jets, Apache attack helicopters or other military craft.

Once released at a high altitude to avoid the aircraft being spotted, the Soldier in the pod will release a steerable parachute and float down.

Mike Ryan, a director of Avpro, the company developing the pods, says: "Because the pod has its own oxy-en, we can drop it from altitudes of more than 20,000ft. Opening the parachute at this height means descent can take up to five hours, giving the Soldiers time to survey the area."

The pods have a GPS system that allows them to be guided with great precision. All the Soldier has to do is put the map co-ordinates of his destination into the pod's computer and it will do the rest. The system is accurate to within a metre, and the Soldier can take control at any time to change course.

Once the pod nears water, a proximity sensor inflates six airbags, which help the pod land safely and quietly on the water where the airbags form a protective skirt, giving, the pod extra stability. It can than be moved up to 50 miles by a propeller driven by a tiny electric motor.

Ryan says: "The pod isn't very fist, but it is completely silent. If this is used at night, there is no way anyone will see or hear you."

Windows on either side of the unit allow the Soldier to see out, and the pod's computer allows the Soldier to stay in radio contact with his superiors. The screen in front of the Soldier can also be linked to an aircraft's navigation system, so the Soldier can see exactly where he is while still attached to the plane.

"There is a small camera that helps alleviate claustrophobia by showing images from outside. There are also a number of other cameras and sensors that can be attached on the outside of the pod for surveillance operations," says Ryan. He is also working on another version of the pod for picking up downed airmen. Attached to a Harrier jump jet, the pod would allow the craft to land quickly, the airman to climb into the pod, and the craft to take off almost instantly.

"We saw in the Gulf war how difficult it was to locate and rescue downed airmen, so we came up with the pod idea. After all, the last turns, you expect in a war zone is a supersonic plane to come in, stop dead and hover before touching down to pick someone up."

Ryan's work has been sponsored by the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA), which has helped to prove the concept.

"Thanks to DERA we have been able to prove that the system will work. We now have a prototype pod attached to a Harrier which we will use for flight tests later this year," he says. "The airbag and parachute system has already been extensively tested. It is the same design used on the Mars Pathfinder mission, so we know it holds up to extreme conditions well."

Dera has also carried out tests to make Sure humans can survive journeys in the pods.

"We were worried about the safety aspect - being in one of these pods is quite a ride. We've actually been approached by an amusement company to sell rides in these things when they are strapped to a jet fighter. However, I don't think we will be working with them just yet - I certainly won't be volunteering to be their first passenger," says Ryan.

Once in production, each pod should cost about 100,000. Ryan believes that for special-forces operations this is cheap.

"This isn't something that will be used every day, and when you consider that the cost of training a fighter pilot is about 3.7m, then paying, 100,000 for something to get him back intact isn't such a bad deal."

According to Ryan, the problem now is finding funding to complete development of the pod.

"If we had an unlimited supply of money, we could have this thing in operation within six months. However, that is unrealistic and because of the way the funding process works in Britain, we think it will take about two years before we go into production. There has been a lot of interest from abroad, particularly from Japan and America, so we may be able to get extra funding there."

The Japanese authorities have expressed an interest in adopting the system for both military and civilian uses.

"At things like a road-traffic accident the pods are very useful. Not only can we ferry the injured out, we can also take in supplies and doctors. We are even looking at the possibility of having a special pod that contains an entire operating theatre that could fold out," says Ryan.

10/28/98 7:39 AM

MID-AIR RECOVERY OF PILOTS UNDER CANOPY?

Bosnia. 20,000 feet. A SAM forces CPT Scott O'Grady to eject from his burning F-16 Fighting Falcon. He describes his descent:

"I came down from a pretty high altitude....We've roughly estimated that it took about twenty-five minutes from the time I ejected for me to hit solid ground. It was a long, long ride. It lasted forever. Forever. I was thinking, 'Geez, lets get this done', because it was really windy. I knew that sooner or later I had to hit the ground and start that episode of being in a hostile territory, trying to survive and evade, and hopefully get rescued."

Most are unaware that the Desert Storm air campaign was fought at MEDIUM altitudes to evade small arms, light auto-cannon and shoulder fired SAM ADA systems. An aircraft hit at medium altitude (above 5,000 feet) that results in the pilot ejecting will have him descending under canopy at 15 feet per second for 5 minutes or more---plenty of time for the enemy to see him and marshall ground search teams to capture him--or for us to fly in and "snatch" him.

Reading USAF Col Jack Broughton's book, Thud Ridge about flying F-105 Thunderchiefs "Downtown" during the Vietnam war, you cannot help but to see his point that many died needlessly after being shot down and all we could do was helplessly watch their parachutes descend to the ground and enemy capture, murder or years of torture in their pow camps. While many were saved by extremely courageous ground pick-ups by USAF helicopters and A-1 Skyraider pilots, many died "So that others may live". The large, daylight rescue of Cpt. Scott O'Grady in war-torn Bosnia was one missile away from disaster, as the single-ship infiltration at night is realistically the only way we can recover men on the ground on the sensor and weapons swept battlefields of the 21st Century. We were very blessed that the Bosnian Serbs couldn't locate O'Grady thanks to his long drift time under canopy and his SERE school-learned evasiveness to use him as "bait" to lure in and ambush rescue forces as the Vietnamese often did.

One of the insights of Col. Broughton's book was that there should be some way to "snatch" these pilots while they are descending under parachutes before they reach the ground in the first place. For years, before spy satellite photos were sent by digital link to the ground, actual film capsules were ejected from space and as they floated under a parachute a C-130 Hercules transport flew along and "snatched" the film capsule. The question is why not have a very agile AFSOC "MC-22" 0r "AV-22" Pave Low IV tilt-rotor aircraft accompany AF strike missions for the sole purpose of swooping in and "snatching" the downed pilot's parachute and reeling him in BEFORE he reaches the ground? In the late 1970s/80s BioTechnology in Virginia researched such techniques and found them feasible. We should perfect a mid-air recovery system today before there is another "O'Grady" or Desert Storm Air Campaign.

The ideal aircraft for MARS would be one that can slow to a hover to match up with a descending parachute or once snatched can land slowly by a hover with the aircrewman if for some reason he couldn't be reeled in. This aircraft would have a Pararescueman (PJ) with medical skills onboard to "reel him in" like on the MC-130 Combat Talon Is with Fulton STAR systems. Lastly, this aircraft should be a jet capable of high subsonic speed to fly as part of a jet strike package to be there if an attack jet pilot gets shot down for MARS retrieval.

The problem is no current aircraft in the world fits this without modification. The MC-22 Osprey is hover-capable and has a rear ramp and cargo area for a PJ and recovery but is too slow to fly along with a jet strike package, though it could fly ahead and stay on station nearby. The MC-130 flies faster--especially if a "J" model propfan equipped version were procured, has the rear ramp and the technology used to recover spy satellite film capsule parachutes already exists, though they cannot hover, thus requiring greater pilot skill. The S-3 Viking used on Navy carriers is a jet with high subsonic speeds that could be modified to do MARS by removing its sonobuoy tubes and building an open area and rear access opening for reeling the snatched aircrewman in. The AV-8B and the future STOVL F-35 JSF can fly attack jet profiles and hover---if GRIER pods perhaps holding a PJ or reel in by remore control--and with MARS were created, they could look like all the other jets in the strike package until a pilot retrieval was needed. In fact with a GRIER MARS system ANY U.S. fighter or helicopter that can accept a bomb rack could become MARS-capable. If the pilot couldn't be reeled in for whatever the reason he would be flown to safer airspace and released with a new parachute deploying to supercede the one caught in the MARS apparatus.

NEW!!!!

Lighter than air technology not fully exploited yet: FULTON ATAR?

In fact, we are all aware of air bag technology in our povs. A collision inflates a shock absorbing bag to protect us from trauma. Why not a helium air cannister or bottle of heat that inflates a bag within the parachute after ejection to keep the pilot aloft---and out of enemy light small arms fire and the ground----to help a MARS aircraft to rendezvous to recover him in the air? Or simply a small balloon on top of the parachute to interface with the fulton STAR system?

If you go to the Pioneer Aerospace web site you will see parachutes with live humans have been successfully snatched and reeled in mid-air, or a Mid-Air Recovery System (MARS).

We recover balloons now from the ground using Robert Fulton's Surface-To-AiR (STAR) system, which has sucessfully extracted agents from the polar ice cap and a wounded Delta Force trooper during the SCUD SSM hunt during Desert Storm. With ATAR if the pilot feels this isn't going to happen he can cut-away from the balloon and descend by parachute--hopefully after a rescue force for ground pick-up has been acquired--a GRIER pod equipped STOVL AV-8B Harrier II, F-35 STOVL JSF, U.S. Army attack helicopter with GRIER rocket/rescue pod or V/TOL helicopters and tilt-rotors.

The beauty of EXTENDed FLIght Escape Systems (EXTENDFLIES) or a Fulton Air-to-Air Recovery system (ATAR) would be that it saves lives in peacetime over dangerous terrains and water. Aircrew held aloft by EXTENDFLIES could stay away from freezing waters, drowning, while emitting a search signal that would be heard for miles from their elevated position. Searchers would get an immediate fix and fly to their rescue by MARS or watch them descend on signal by parachute to the ground for immediate pick up.

USSOCOM CSAR AIRCRAFT ON NAVY AMPHIB SHIPS?

Shot out of his F-16 by a Serbian missile, Cpt Scott O'Grady is blown by the winds for 25 minutes under his parachute and begins praying. Upon landing and evading searchers who walked by sometimes as close as 5 feet from him--his final prayer was "to be rescued and not have anyone die doing it".

6 days later at midnight, his squadron mate, F-16 "Basher 11" (Cpt T.O. Handlen) locates him on the radio and orders a rescue. He flies to a tanker to mid-air refuel. An AC-130 Spectre gunship for fire support and pinpointing O'Grady's location with forward looking infared (FLIR) is with him by the tanker for the armored, heavily armed, night/adverse weather sensor-equipped AFSOC MH-53J Pave Low III helicopter(s) on alert in Brindisi, Italy to fly in under the cover of darkness to extract O'Grady to safety. O'Grady has Global Positioning Sytem (GPS) to radio his exact location to his inbound rescuers.

But the night rescue never came. O'Grady is told to wait.

Instead, the Navy Admiral in charge, Leighton Smith decides to wait until daylight and have his naval services do the mission in large visible formations: like he flew in Vietnam and watched dozens of men get shot down in the process. Denying parochialism as a motive or being ignorant of the way downed pilots are recovered in the 90s, the fact that he sent the USS Kearsarge into the Adriatic with a daylight only capable TRAP unit created ad hoc from a mortar platoon without placing an armored, AFSOC sensor equipped helicopter onboard with crews and pararescumen trained for a tactically sound night rescue exposes the lie. Instead, that morning a fleet of aircraft and men were put into harm's way in broad daylight to escort 2 huge CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters with higher ranking marines wanting to present themselves as "leading from the front"instead of shooters. Half of this entourage upon landing couldn't even get out of their helicopter when its rear ramp jammed on a farm fence landing on a non-Pathfinder surveyed LZ. What good would two helicopters packed with people be if O'Grady had been in thick undergrowth and there was NOWHERE to land? Just inviting targets as they hover to lower a rescue hoist? As these loud, vulnerable machines kicked up dust in an open danger area, O'Grady ran up to one and rescued himself as the relatively few lower ranking shooters struggled to fan out and prevent a burst of Serbian small arms or RPG fire from turning the cow pasture into another mc created "Desert One". Fortunately, O'Grady's prayers were answered as the unarmored aircraft flew out and though hit by small arms fire, were not hit by the two surface to air missiles fired that could have sent a helicopter packed with 20+ men to their deaths. Mission Commander LTC Chris Gunther :

"We all thought there were probably two or three miracles connected with the rescue of Scott O'Grady..despite the navigation system on the lead helicopter breaking down, the AWACs (USAF radar plane) was there to give us the guidance and maintain very good situational awareness throughout"

Today we debate the morality of sending 8 men in to rescue a Private Ryan on film while in REALITY we have so-called professionals willing to send in 61 to get one on a poorly conceived operation that was just one missile away from disaster, so they can showboat themselves and their service. This is all documented in detail in Mary Pat Ryan's book "Good to Go" which like the Serbian ambush that got O'Grady, cleverly gets the players to talk. While they boast about their decisions and "institutional values" and other chest-thumping she paints the picture a tactician or person with common sense would see as a daytime disaster asking to happen and a military where people at too high of a Command level are making decisions best made by those on the scene. She lists BY NAME AND RANK everyone involved in the O'Grady caper and its implications are sickening. Out of the 61 men needlessly risked to rescue one, 20 were officers or Staff NCOs--some packed onboard the helicopters with no business being there, some flying helicopter gunships slower than the Sea Stallions and creating more low-flying targets for the Serbs. We had the MEU commander a full Colonel and his Sgt Major on board. Then the Lieutenant Colonel mission commander, another SNCO, all to "supervise" a TRAP team led by a 1LT. What should have been one aircraft radioing to another on alert while maintaining contact overhead to effect a simple and tactically prudent rescue at night became a jointitis "purple people goatscrew" where decisions were framed by "lowest common denominator" group think advice fed to a figurehead commander, far removed from current battlefield realities. If Admiral Smith was so eager to rescue O'Grady immediately he would have sent in the AFSOC helicopter(s) immediately to get him out under darkness and not waited. If he wanted to wait and get a more deliberate attempt he could have waited until nightfall the next day and prevented losing more men by exposing on those absolutely necessary for the rescue.

USN Lt Commander Bob Nugent on suppressing Serbian air defenses:

"..what if they had actually gotten a misile off and a helicopter had gone down"? It would have been very hard to explain to the parents of all these people on that helicopter that we had had even ambiguous indications that there was a threat there and didn't act on it"

It would also be hard to justify a daylight mission instead of ordering night rescue.

Major Michael Ogden one of the CH-53E pilots said about using the AFSOC rescue team:

"This was going to be a daylight mission...I'm not inside the loop, so I don't know why the decision was made to send us in instead of somebody else"

Instead of an ill equipped force is sent on a wrong mission we should have a sensor and armor equipped CSAR helo on every amphibious group to do recoveries without 60+ men.

BAIL-OUT PARACHUTES FOR PEOPLE ONBOARD U.S. ARMY and USAF AIRCRAFT, IS THIS ASKING TOO MUCH?

Army/Mc bail-out capability?

A CH-46 hit by enemy fire with marines inside burning a few seconds before crashing and exploding in flames during the Vietnam War. Why were'nt the aircrew wearing bail-out parachutes to jump and live? How about the embarked troops?

Afghanistan, 1987

"The action, which was lead to Captain Valeriy Popkov becoming a hero [of the Soviet Union--equivalent to the U.S. Congressional Medal of Honor] occurred just a few days before the final withdrawal. Flying a “Hip” as wingman to Captain Ilgiz Sharipov on a reconnaissance mission, Popkov followed his leader through a solid layer of cloud and headed out over the mountains. Soviet helicopter pilots liked to fly above cloud because they were then safe from Mujaheddin missiles. Thirty minutes later the pair let down through the overcast, located the rebels after a while and radioed the information back to their command post.

Their duty done they headed up for home. A break in the cloud appeared and it was then, suddenly, that Popkov saw to his horror Sharipov’s helicopter burst into flames, stall and then fall steeply. Suspecting that the “Hip” had been hit by a missile, but disregarding the fact that his own helicopter might shortly become a victim, Popkov started a steep spiraling descent to keep Sharipov’s “Hip” in sight. He called his command post to report what was happening.

Popkov’s crew saw three figures parachute from the burning helicopter but was unable to see where they landed. As Popkov headed on downwards, he suddenly noticed a bright orange canopy with a man standing by it. He also saw some Mujaheddin running towards the spot firing their weapons. Popkov turned his “Hip” towards them and launched a few rockets while his crew chief fired a machine-gun through an open side window.

Landing near the parachute, and some 300 metres down slope from the burning “Hip”, Popkov could see that the survivor was Sharipov. Everybody was ordered out to get him aboard and find the remaining members of his crew. At that moment Popkov’s helicopter was hit and a smell of fuel pervaded the “Hip”. Nevertheless, Sharipov was bundled aboard as the crew chief and two others engaged the approaching Mjuaheddin with their rifles."

--"From Helicopters in combat: the first 50 years" by John Everett-Heath

The Russians in Afghanistan wore parachutes, saving HUNDREDS of lives. Had it been the U.S. Army or marines fighting from helicopters these would be dead going down with their flaming helicopters. Why are we "anti-parachute" in helicopter and transport aviation circles in the U.S. military? Do we have a death wish?

The Russians beat us again when it comes to mechanical advantage things....they design crew escape/recovery into their aircraft, we do not. They are realistic, we are not. They save lives, we lose lives. And we wonder why Army Aviation is in a decline?

The Mi-28 Havoc is their AH-64 Apache helicopter gunship "clone".....

Jane's reports:

"Crew doors are rearward hinged, to open quickly and remain open in emergency; parachutes are mandantory for CIS military helicopter aircrew; if Mi-28 crew had to parachute , emergency system would jettison doors, blast away stub wings, and inflate bladder beneath each door sill; as crew jumped, they would bounce off bladders and clear main landing gear; port-side door, aft of wing, provides access to avionics compartment large enough to permit combat rescue of two or three persons on ground"

What does this mean?

1. They can parachute bail out, they don't have to go down with their aircraft like we do in the U.S....

2. Those that bail out can be IMMEDIATELY picked up by whichever Mi-28 gunship is around the area--instead of waiting for dedicated C/SAR forces to transit, arrive, find the downed aircrew and hope he's not being used as "bait" for an ambush of the rescuers. Immediate suppression/destruction of the threat that shoots down a crew followed by immediate recovery would be better than waiting for C/SAR.

If the enemy ground force is too much to be handled by the attack helicopters, then Air-Mech-Strike rescue forces should be inserted and on the ground 2-D axis, recover the downed aircrews, secure a PZ and then fly them out.

ITS NOT TOO LATE FOR THE U.S Army!

We could design a rocket/rescue pod for attack helicopters that can jettison its tubes, leaving just the outer shell which could be designed to carry a single downed aircrewman. McDonnell-Douglas before it was digested by Boeing was designing a GRIER (GRound Insertion Extraction Resupply) pod for the AV-8B Harrier II to use its V/TOL capabilities to insert/extract SOF members, as described before. Or we could do it right and design personnel recovery space into the aircraft like the Russians do.

USAF fixed-wing aircraft bail outs, anyone?

One of the amusing things to see in the film, Air Force One is there being ram-air parachutes (RAPs) in large quantities onboard for people to bail out in event of a crippled aircraft. While the RAP is not a good choice since it requires Military Free Fall (MFF) skills to use safely, the idea of a simpler, round canopy bail-out parachute is a good one. This is a common sense thing the American public thinks the AF actually does. The truth is if you are a military passenger or Soldier on a USAF transport and it goes down, you and everyone onboard go down with it in flames. This is one time where life needs to imitate wiser "art" and the AF should develope a simple to don, bail-out (round canopy) parachute with rip cord that would be under the seats in the quantity of every seat belt position offered of every one of its transport aircraft to save lives--especially when flying into a combat zone. Butler Parachutes Inc made a very compact bail-out parachute for Dick Rutan-Jeanna Yaeger's record-breaking around the world without refueling flight that can be worn by aircrew without it even being noticed its there. We need another option ther than going down with the aircraft.

Operation Varsity was a good example--23 C-46 Commandos were hit by enemy fire, but every single Paratrooper was able to jump out to safety and perform his combat mission on the ground below.

FIXED WING AIR-CUSHION AIRCRAFT: LONG RANGE RESCUE?

Basically the V-22 is an expensive helicopter that flies a little bit faster. The world is still 24,000 miles around, 100-200 mph just isn't going to cut it. We need to solve the basic problem of fixed-wing aircraft--which is we have them land on wheels and roll to a stop. As General Gavin said in 1947 we need a lower-pressure under carriage than that, perhaps tracks as he suggested or an AIR CUSHION. We already have made this work, and again--the Russians have a seaplane in production with it. A C-130 with an Air-Cushion Landing System could land almost anywhere sea or land to pick up downed aircrew and rescue all kinds of endangered people in peacetime from long search ranges. Remember you have to find them first. Instead of losing contact as you wait for a helo to refind them, land yourself and rescue them when you find them.

The world we live in moves by the speed of the AIR, our nation is a strategic AIR POWER. Some of our aircraft as hard as we try to prevent otherwise, are going to go down. Lets insure our people are not inside them when it happens.

Army Aviator replies:

"During the Vietnam conflict the Army experimented with ejection systems for the Cobra helicopter. Blow the rotor system followed by ejection for the pilots. It never got far as the time for the sequence took to long for the flight profile of a Cobra without rotors. Aviators also were more comfortable with attempting autorotation. This was before the days of SAMs. SAMs drove helicopters to low level as we entered the days of massed formations with ZSU 23-4 and SA-8 and MANPADS. So in this environment bailing out would be non-productive. Also there was the possibility of jumping out into the tail rotor, that would ruin your day as well. The American (and European) method was to build aircraft with shock absorbing seats, impact absorbing fuselage sections, and long stroke landing gear. These have proved viable as long as the aircraft impacted at lower speeds and with the dirty side down. Indeed this is what kept some of the aviators alive in the Blackhawks that got shot down in Somalia. The Army is introducing airbags into helicopters now to further improve the survivability factor for the crews. Escape from transport helicopters was never considered as it was felt that it would not be good for moral to have the aviators leave the damaged aircraft with the troopers in the back. Better they should share the troopers fate and maybe get the aircraft on the ground safely, versus punching out at the first sign of fire, etc. Interestingly for this very reason the marine corps elected not to put ejection/bail out capability in the V-22.

With the change of flight profiles (higher again) there has yet to be an issue of attempting bail out. Still not flying high enough to get out and open before the sudden stop at the bottom. Ejection requires you blow the rotors and there is no guarantee they will all come off. Of interest the Russians have designed the KA-50 Werewolf (NATO: Hokum) with an ejection system. Part of the reason that the Russians have opted to go this route is that they have a different flight profile/philosophy than we do. The Russians use there aircraft more as a close air support system. Indeed the KA-50 seems to have more in common with an A-10 Warthog than an Apache helicopter. Big cannon (forward firing), massive amounts of armor plating, good stability in forward flight. Ironically the high time Hokum pilot was killed last year when he attempted to land his helicopter with major rotor damage when he was in a position to use the ejection system. The Russian way is to fly race tracks, or high speed routes to an initial point, then climb to altitude for a diving attack run. This and the Russian experience in Afghanistan that required them to operate in high mountain environments at high altitude I think has lead them to this methodology. I will defer to Mr. Grau on this issue if I'm off target.

As to the issue of CSAR and extraction. This is an area that the Army is finally waking up to. Until recently most Army aviators felt that if you went down in Indian Country, you were on your own, to "hoof it" back to friendly lines. With the hyperpress capability the modern world (Durant in Somalia, USAF CPT in Bosnia, F-117 pilot Serbia) we are starting to learn how to do extraction. Aviators now have a survival vest with leg straps and d-rings. The Special Ops aviators developed it and the rest of us thought it a great idea. Indeed the one Apache crew that was shot down in Iraq ran over to their wingman's aircraft and clipped themselves to the landing gear. Most of the missions now flown in the Balkans either have a Blackhawk along for crew extraction or have one with a reaction force standing by at the base on notice to fly out and extract the crews. Most helicopter crews will try to extract their Buddies themselves.

The British have taken up on the GRIER concept Mike talks about for their Harriers, mostly because flying around outside at 300-500 knots is not good for ones health. I don't mean to dismiss the concept. I actually think it is a good idea. Hanging around on the outside of a helicopter in the dead of winter does not seem to be a good idea. But how many do you take on a mission? Every pod is one less station for munitions. I really like the concept of having enough room in an attack aircraft for a couple of extra people somewhere. That however causes the designer dilemma of how to deal with the requirement with all the other factors. More space equals more weight, equals bigger engines, equals more gas, equals bigger airframe....

As long as the main propulsion for Army Attack airframes is above the aviators head, I do not see an ejection system being viable. With the flight profile still being low (> 1000 ft) manual bail out would be highly risky (by the time an aviator decides he can't deal with it he has probably lost half his altitude). Think we are making great strides in CSAR, we have room for improvement. New survival radios with GPS beacon give us the ability to pinpoint downed crews for rapid extraction (the F-117 pilot last year). Still the Army needs to continue to develop internal and joint doctrine."

REPLY:

The Russian pilot was trying to save the Ka-50, Russia is cash-strapped, he was being heroic to help the program not hesitant about the ejection seat system in my opinion.