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On my first foray into the NUS Bulletin Boards/Newsgroups, I chanced upon a somewhat interesting debate, sparked off by a posting from "correct". Enjoy!
 
 
FROM THE NUS BULLETIN BOARDS
 
nus.talk.science
Re: Mother of All Sciences (Geography)
 
Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:35:02 +0800 
correct <correct_mind@yahoo.com> wrote:  
    Mother of all Sciences is Geography. Geography is the study of the total human and physical environment and the way the two interact. Therefore it encompasses all disciplines, including but not limited to: meteorology, soil science, medicine, botany, zoology, microbiology, hydrology, geology, geomorphology, ecology, law, sociology, economics, anthropology, physics, chemistry, psychology....the subdisciplines of the above: medical geography, environmental microbiology, environmental law, biogeography, palynology, zoogeography, biogeochemistry, 
    environmental psychology, environmental botany, microbial ecology, hydrogeology, geophysics, quantitative geography................................................... 

    and yes, also mathematics (useful for quantitative analysis)

 
 
16 Apr 1998 00:17:31 GMT 
scip7045@leonis.nus.sg (Cheong Siew Ann) wrote: 
    So?  Please enlighten us poor souls what geography has to say about stellar evolution.
 
Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:13:18 -0500 
Heitor Yeo <eng50444@leonis.nus.edu.sg> wrote: 
    The topic is mother of all sciences is the topic of discussion, right?  What has stellar evolution got to do with mother of all sciences?  I am not an astrophysicist nor do I have a PhD in geography so I cannot answer your question.  As far as I know, geography doesn't have much to say about evolution of stars or ssociated planetary bodies.  It certainly seems like an interesting topic, but in my belief its not the most pressing issue facing our planet.  Lets learn more about our own environment first (and learn how to live sustainably) before we embark on spending millions of dollars on research on some distant stars whilst billions of people live in poverty!  How is the understanding of stellar evolution going to improve the living conditions of the world's poor and help us learn how to 'sustainably manage' this planet?  What are our priorities?  

    I doubt that I have enlightened you on what geography has to say on stellar evolution, mainly because it (probably) hasn't got much to say.  That is your field of study.  Instead, I hope that you will think about what the point of research on stellar evolution is and how it will improve lives of all species on our planet.  I may be ignorant, so enlighten this poor soul please.

 
 
17 Apr 1998 00:52:47 GMT 
scip7045@leonis.nus.sg (Cheong Siew Ann) wrote: 
    Firstly, curiosity is the mother of all sciences, not geography.  As a matter of fact, I don't classify geography a science anymore than history, judging from their methodology of study.
    Secondly, I agree that the issues about poverty and human sufferings are pressing indeed, but I disagree that it is "bad" to keep this in view and still spend millions and billions on basic scientific research.  People are starving, true, but there is enough food in the world to feed its people three times over, and I heard from a well-informed friend that US farmers dump surplus wheat into the oceans to prevent the prices (and  
    directly, their income) from plunging.  There is also enough energy resources to go around, but affluent countries are burning them up for such occasions as the Academy Awards and the building of the scaled-down replica of the Titanic.  There is enough water resources to support the present world population too, although some would waste it in filling their jacuzzi's.
    We have enough resources for everyone on this earth to live a comfortable life.  The fact that human sufferings remain points to mismanagement of the resources, and the fact that countries with abundant resources are too selfish to share it with their less endowed neighbours.  Money channelled into scientific research isn't mismanagement.  Although the implications are not as immediate as medical, social and engineering research, the implications of scientific research are more long-term and far-reaching, because the prizes of scientific discovery are the "treasury reserves" of the entire human race for future contingencies.
    It would be myopic to think that stellar evolution is not important to us.  To begin with, there are several stars close to our solar system (< 100 light years away) that have masses greater than a few solar mass, for example, Sirius.  In astronomical terms, this means we have something of a galactic-scale time-bomb in our backyard, because stars of this kind of mass generally go supernova.
    You may think: so what?  Sirius is that far from us, how could it possibly affect us?  Let me remind you that in the 15th century a star in the Crab Nebula went supernova, and according to Chinese astronomers at that time, the night was as bright as dawn or dusk.  And the Crab Nebula is in another galaxy, a few hundred million light years from us!!!
    If you can scale that distance down to a few hundred light years from us, you cannot even begin to imagine what magnitude of a catastrophe that is.  What is certain is that, if Sirius goes, we go.
    So why study stellar evolution, you ask?  If we understand how stars age in general, we might be able to say something about how old Sirius is, and possibly narrow down the window for its supernova to a few million years.  If we think that we will still be around by then, then it would be a pressing reason to commence a species-wide concerted effort into interstellar travel research, so that we can leave this planet before Sirius terminates our existence on this plane of presence, so to speak.
    In conclusion, anything that is done in the name of advancing knowledge of the whole human kind is worth the investment.  Of course, I would not at the same time endorse pouring the whole GNP of a country into researching interstellar propulsion mechanisms NOW, because there are other matters that demands our economic attention, for example, improving on our management of global resources, and especially for Singapore, helping Indonesia put out their forest fires.
    Anything else you feel is useless?
    Regards, Cheong Siew Ann
 
Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:37:31 -0500 
Heitor Yeo <eng50444@leonis.nus.edu.sg> wrote: 
    I agree with most of the things you had to say. Finally we have some 
    common ground here. A few things though: 

    Geography is somehwere between arts and science depeding on whether one studies the human or the physical environment. True, historical geography has a lot in common with history, but I doubt that thats the case with lets say soil geography. I don't think that historians spend hours in the lab analysing soils for 
    nutrients, heavy metals etc.... Yes, geography like ecology etc. are not sciences like physics etc. as its impossible to study environmental componets isolated in a vacuum. And OK I accept that curiosity is the mother of all sciences and not geography, as long as its not mathematics! 

    Your second point regarding food abundance is true. There is enough food 
    to feed everyone its just that food is not distributed evenly. Even during the great famine in Ethiopia, the country was a net exporter of food. Food is sold to the highest bidder not to the person that needs it the most. There is enough renewable energy to go around eg. solar, wind etc. its just that we are not tapping those resources as yet to a large extent. Using oil and coal for energy is not a sustainable practice since you can only dig it out once, and of course you create pollution.... 

    I'm not sure though what you mean when you say that countries with abundant resources are too selfish to share it with their less endowed neighbours. Countries with abundant resources (as many Third World countries are) do share their resources very much unselfishly (because they have to due to debt etc...). It is ironic to see that some of the world's wealthiest nations (such as Singapore, Japan, the Netherlands) are the least endowed with resources.  

    Studying stellar evolution is not useless! All basic research seems useless. Studying the biology of a speice of a microorganism may seem useless to some now only to find that it has some useful medical properties a few years down the track. Just simply knowing, out of curiosity, as much about life, the earth, the galaxy, is what science is all about. I never said that research on stellar evolution was useless but simply that its not the most important. As you said, Sirius might explode in a few million years, therefore we have plenty of time to deal with that problem! By that time the earth might have gone through global warming, nuclear winter, several ice ages, been invaded by alliens etc 
    etc. and the species of Homo sapiens may be either non existent or have 
    evolved to be Homo ?. Of course, lets worry about future generations. Too many politicians only seem to think a few years ahead totally ignoring the next and the next and the next generation. However, I doubt that even the most radical environmentalists think a few million years ahead. And anyway, I'm sure that humans will be capable of interstellar travel in a far shorter space of time than a million years; in search of other life forms and resources rather than trying to run away from an exploding star.

 
 
Wed, 06 May 1998 12:10:27 +0800 
Theresa Wong <stanwon@singnet.com.sg> wrote: 
    Whether Geography is the Mother of all Sciences or merely a distant relative 
    (especially if you are specifically concerned about its research methodology) 
    is not the real issue. 

    Geography binds the different spheres of the universe together - the lithosphere, biosphere, atmosphere, hydrosphere - and this encompasses all 
    activities taking place in this world. This is not to say stellar evolution isn't part of Geography as we know it. The subject matter of Geography is constantly changing. In the Middle Ages Ptolemy's cartographic achievements were considered all there is to "Geography". But look at it now. The subject matter ranges from asking why the drought in Asia is more pronounced that ever 
    before, to charting people's mental maps of certain places that evoke certain 
    imaginations. And the recent renewed interest in Mars and the question of the 
    existence of water on another planet, together with stellar evolution, will surely become a post-modern focus in the study of geography, broadening its eaches from the mere confines of Earth to beyond it. 

    The fact that Geography is the amalgamation of all the various aspects of life 
    on Earth points to the necessity in having a knowledge of it. People brush 
    geographers off as "jacks of all trades, but masters of none", and I question: 
    what is the use of knowing a subject so intimately only to ignore or be 
    ignorant of others? I believe wholeheartedly in specialisation. I believe that 
    only those who have a high degree of expertise in certain fields would be able 
    to invent and ensure the continued discovery of newer ways. And I respect 
    these scientists - those who have spent vast amounts of time and effort and 
    ingenuity to make life better for everyone else. I only ask that there be respect for others - others who are able to see things as a whole, not be swallowed by the exciting opportunities in, say, astronomical explorations, to ignoring the need to give life to those on Earth who are living on the edge of human survival. 

    I call for a balance, though realistically it has been difficult. Because Nature is based on equilibrium that sustains the delicate nuances of being, and it would be detrimental to uphold certain duties to the detriment of others. Think why many predict that future wars would be fought over water. Think of all of us who disregard the need for balance within world water reserves, and constantly draw water from grounwater resources without awaiting its renewal, pollute the seas, realise too late, then disturb the balance even further by cloud-seeding. True, cloud-seeding is deemed necessary for the survival, of say, drought-hit residents of Malaysia. But this has happened only because we realised too late. 

    Call Geography what you will - but never underestimate its importance. 
     

 
 
6 May 1998 11:45:31 GMT 
eng50004@leonis.nus.sg (Modeus) wrote:  
    A man is evre (sic) more interested in a woman's geography than her History. 

    (Ed: I am only trying to stay true to the discussion that followed, so if this seems to you a message belonging to another realm, do excuse this inclusion.)

 
7 May 1998 00:18:37 GMT 
scip7045@leonis.nus.sg (Cheong Siew Ann) wrote: 
    Great essay.  But some factual mistakes.
    "I call for a balance, though realistically it has been difficult. Because: Nature is based on equilibrium that sustains the delicate nuances of being, ...." ^^^^^^    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Nature is based on structures VERY far away from equilibrium.
 
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