HTML II
Session Start: Sat Feb 20 17:19:27 1999
* Logging #chatcafe to '#chatcafe2_20.log'
<Ruthk> ghaten I saw a transcript where you didn't mind interviews?
<alf> how do you put the z- to indicate you have no questions? Forgot as usual
<Ghatten> Ruth, that would be true. :)
<Ruthk> I will email you then Ghatten ok?
<Ghatten> Please do, use html2@vu.org --- Just put my name in the Subject line so it 
does not get to one of the other instructors by mistake (we split up the class email)
<Ruthk> Well I hope to be where you are in maybe 12 mos. hopefully
*** Zonie changes topic to 'HTML II (Home Improvement)'
<eagle> just got message from glady - having problems- just got message from Norton 
Anti virus she has bee infected with HAPPY99.WORM virus Any suggestions?
<anneH> oh noooo that is happening to a lot of people
<z-Kinkell-away> yes...got some sites
<anneH> she needs NOrton's instruction on how to clean it
<Ghatten> That is a nasty one...if she has IE I think she can use McAfee online to get rid of it
<Steve> what is the worm ?
<Malibu> Go to the network associates site on someone elses computer, download a 
boot disk
<z-Kinkell-away> http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/happy99.worm.html
<Malibu> and get rid of it using mcAfee
<anneH> gets passed around a lot in email
<z-Kinkell-away> http://www.datafellows.com/news/pr/eng/19990129.htm
<eagle> IE is telling her what to do but it isnt happening cause she doesnt have the dll file
 she needs to make it happen
<anneH> maybe that virus messes with the dll files too, i can't remember
<Ghatten> Dang...maybe she can download the Dll from the Microsoft site...they have 
some DLLs
<z-Kinkell-away> it does
<anneH> oh and here is another site where you can download dll if you know the name of it
<Ghatten> I don't remember but I read a description of it at McAfee 
<Ghatten> Maybe she can go look and see what they say
<z-Kinkell-away> lots of the cross stitchers got it
<eagle> am ICQ to her. for some reason that IS working
<anneH> http://babeard.simplenet.com/
<Zonie> Happy99.exe is a worm that sends itself to every one you email or every news
 group you post to
<anneH> that one is for dll files to download
<anneH> ghatten, last week we had 3 times as many people
<Otter> are people sending it as an attachment in email Zonie and then opening it?
<Zonie> if you open it you too will be sending it : )
<Zonie> it sends it self
<anneH> another friend found it in her attachments directory and deleted it, she was 
ok then, never opened it
<anneH> did not even know it was there until people started talking about the file and 
then she looked
<Ghatten> If you do not open the file or run the program it should not affect you.
<z-Kinkell-away> mine was already opened in my rocketmail...so saw script not exe
* Steve has no happy's and no ska's...thank you
<eagle> from glady...
<eagle> I'm sure e-mail is where I got it and I'm sure the teacher that passed it on to me 
didn't have any idea what it was or that it was a virus.  My DLL's are messed up.  
Two of them.  The SKA.DLL and the WSOCK32.DLL.
<Otter> it sends itself as an attachment -- but opening the email also infects?
<Ghatten> That's odd...
<Ghatten> I've never heard of a virus that can be caught without opening the attachment 
or running something from an email....
<Ghatten> Usually you are safe if you scan attachments before opening
<kittycat1> Maybe I am lucky that Mac doesn't open .exe
<z-Malibu> does anyone know if this virus is attached or sent using Happy99 as the name?
<eagle> when I get attachment I have them auto ask me if I want to scan before download
<Zonie> to be rid of or see if you have happy99.exe
<Zonie> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM
<Zonie> I had it for about 3 minutes, guy who sent it to me, put out email to let me know,
 I got from my ISP tech LOL
<anneH> oh dear, they are not infallible either then
<Zonie> is a cool looking fireworks display : )
<Zonie> from tech I figured was safe LOL
<Zonie> teach me to think : )
<Ghatten> The site ZOnie sent confirms that you cannot get the virus from just recieving
 the email --- you have to run the attachment.
<z-Malibu> Is the attachement named Happy99 or something obvious?
<Zonie> happy99.exe
<z-Kinkell-away> happy99.exe
<z-Malibu> thanks
<Ruthk> is this open to any ?
<Ghatten> It's supposed to be a Happy New Years greeting
<anneH> yes, we should really start the questions now that we have covered important
 stuff like viruses that take precedence over all
<Ghatten> Well we really have not started --- we got sidetracked by a discussion of a 
virus that is going around
<Zonie> the gift that keeps on giving ; )
<Ruthk> I have a ? about uploading my webpage
<eagle> new years resoultion-dont accept .exe files at all
<Ghatten> HTML 2 class now
<Ghatten> Good resolution Eagle.
<Ruthk> this is probably an Html I ? but when uploading I am having problems with all 
pages not uploading..do I have to have all the Html in upper or lower case?
<Ruthk> K have some pages mixed
<Ghatten> It's better by far to have all the page names in lower case.
<Zonie> best to always use lower case extensions, in files and code
<Ghatten> cat.html, tom.html
<Ghatten> etc.
<anneH> then remember to change them to all lowercase in your html documents
<Ruthk> would that be the reason some of my pages are not being accepted?
<eagle> and to be sure that the way you are uploading them is also the exact way you have t
hem tagged, linkled, on your notepad html
<Otter> also -- depending on your server where your page is -- all need to be either .htm  or   .html
<Ghatten> Yes, it might be that they are actually THERE....but it is not being FOUND 
because of the mixed case....
<Ruthk> ok thanks
<anneH> what is the url where your pages are ruthk?
<Ghatten> UNIX servers will NOT read mixed case well or at all
<anneH> and do not have any spaces in your filenames either
<Ghatten> AND they see CAT.HTML and cat.html as TWO different file names
<Ruthk> I have them on http://members.xoom.com
<Steve> Also, some ISPs graciously change your names upon upload...isn't that swell.
<Ghatten> and no odd characters  --right Anne? LOL!  No characters like ^
<Ruthk> Ghatten that is probably the reason as xoom is UNIX
<Zonie> Geocities will change them
<anneH> right we learned earthlink does not like that funny carat in a filename
<Ruthk> Zonie geocities wouldn't upload my files because of a...etc
<Zonie> yep they that way alright : )
<anneH> you can use the underscore underline _ or a dash - usually
<Ghatten> So if you TRY to be consistent
<Ghatten> And keep your file names ALL lowercase
<Ghatten> And always refer to the files IN your HTML as lowercase
<Ruthk> in other words I should keep all lower case or caps be consistant
<Ghatten> You should find less problems
<eagle> they give you the option to have them all changed to lower case and also the 
option to change all to html. I especiall like that change to html cause
<Ghatten> And keep them to single words if possible,
<anneH> all caps is NOT good
<anneH> some ftp programs turn uppercase caps into lower case
<eagle> there are times when I dont specify in notepad ,html and it saves thenm as htm
<Ruthk> Oh and hee I changed all my pages today to Caps instead of lowe..more work 
for tomorrow
<anneH> i always have to rename as I am uploading to get them to be .html
<Ghatten> Oh!
<Ruthk> lower case is better for all ?
<Ghatten> Well it's easier to do it once and keep it that way from then on...then..no 
future problems
<anneH> yes, it looks better too
<Ghatten> Lower case yes
<Otter> lower case for all .html or .htm names is best
<Ruthk> good I will go back and change I perfer lower case when typing
* Ghatten is a terrible offender....prefers to use .html extension but old job used .htm 
so I was CONSTANTLY getting confused...and annoying Anne!
<Otter> but you can use uppercase in HTML coding -- just not the file name
<anneH> hahahahaha, i am not annoyed, i just change it or ask first if you really 
want .htm haha
<Ruthk> oh they hate the file name in caps..interesting I have been adding caps there
<Ruthk> that is probably why xoom does not like some of my files
<Malibu> I have a frames question
<Malibu> Thanks. I got rid of the ugly border between my frame sections but now have a
 space.
<Malibu> How do I get rid of that
<Steve> URL?
<Malibu> http://www.anr.net/~vision/tree/gallery
<Malibu> I looked on a bunch of pages that have a smooth transition from one
 frame to the other but couldn't find what I'm doing wrong.
<Steve> r u talking about the white line between top and bottom?
<Zonie> « Malibu »: <FRAMESET COLS="*,121" FRAMEBORDER="0" 
FRAMESPACING="0" BORDER="0"
<Malibu> Between the menu in the top frame and the page in the bottom? yep.
<Zonie> that one of mine : )
<anneH> that is what i used too zonie
<Steve> see zonie above
<Zonie> framespacing is the space : )
<Zonie> I think : )
<Malibu> Please forgive the Butt ugliness of the page. I'm concentrating on the lesson 
more than aesthetics.
<Malibu> I'll go try that fix real quick.
* Steve says ButtUgly is one of his favorite sites
<Zonie> for a great FREE downloadable (study off line) set of tutorials on HTML, 
Tables, Forms, and Frames
<Zonie> http://junior.apk.net/~jbarta/tutor/makapage/index.html
<Ruthk> I must be the odd one here tonite no z 
<z-Kinkell-away> ghatten did you get my email about gallery page? Just found out 
that some of my emails didn't go last week...and some went twice
<anneH> i have done only one frames in my life, and probably my last, but i think 
it is seamless
<Zonie> I still  use the tables and frames part of that tutorial : )
<anneH> me too zonie
<Ruthk> I like that format very much zonie
<eagle> The info on Happy99.Worm is:
<eagle> Aliases: I-Worm.Happy The length is 10,000 bytes. Characteristics: Not 
Memory Resident, Not Size Stealth, Not Full Stealth, Not Triggered Event, 
Not Encrypting, Not Polymorphic. Comments: This worm modifies WSOCK32.DLL 
to send itself as attachment when a posting is made to USENET or MAIL. Delete
 SKA.EXE & SKA.DLL in Windows\System folder & replace 
WSOCK32.DLL w WSOCK32.SKA in Windows\System folder. That was it.
<z-malibu> still have a seam with those settings...
<anneH> http://www.wwnet.net/~ahartman/snframe.html
<z-malibu> eagle, standalone fixes available at McAfee for that virus.
<Steve> mal...did you u/l new settings?
<Blossom^> might need to hit refresh too......
<Otter> anneH -- just a seam in the background!!!  LOL
<z-malibu> yes. let me try again..brb
<Zonie> between left frame and top frame yes : )
* Steve whispers aside "If anyone wants to see a truely BAD site (on purpose)
 visit BUD UGLY at http://wwwvoice.com/bud/bud.html...but be prepared to restart 
your browser upon leaving.
<Kinkell> why can't I see the alts on my map..it seems everyone else can?
<z-oriole> My favorite site!
<anneH> put it in the frameset itself
<Zonie> sure it was on purpose 
* anneH know otter can fix it so there is not seam in the background too
<Otter> LOL
<anneH> kinkell, that is still the puzzle of the year, in netscape some can and some cannot, 
even with the same browser version
<Kinkell> I can see others..just not mine
<anneH> what version of browser are you using kinkell?
<anneH> that is strange
<Ghatten> Give us the URL Kinkell
<z-malibu> Do I want to put the framespacing="0" in the document source or the frame 
source page?
<Kinkell> http://members.tripod.com/~Kinkell/html_lesson1.html
<anneH> <FRAMESET ROWS="75,*" BORDER="0" FRAMEBORDER="0" 
FRAMESPACING="0">
<anneH> do it in the frameset
<z-malibu> thanks. brb
<anneH> but substitute you info, and just add the other part
<anneH> steve did not think i needed the border="0" part, but at the time I did them, i saw 
info that said to use it
<Ghatten> Hmmm...I may learn something new...I do usually add that to the frame tag itself....
<Zonie> bbs
<anneH> it is a combo of IE and Netscape that is supposed to work in each
* Ghatten wishes that IE and Nestape did NOT vary so much
* Otter wishes AOL didn't exist!!!! LOL
<Steve> FRAMESET
<Ghatten> The only other thing I saw in Malibu's page was that the was no space between 
some of the attributes...that can sometimes mess things up
* z-Kayroller say I us AOL and know what you mean
<z-malibu> I need to straighten that out too. Still is giving me a space. Could that be a netscape
 problem (N3.0)?
<Ghatten> Kinkell..not just that...but I can't see it in IE4 or Nets 4.5!  Yet, when I looked 
at someone elses...I could see it in one but not the OTHER!
<Ghatten> Love the Kitties
<Kinkell> am I doing something wrong?
<Kinkell> thanks..more crossstitch
<kittycat1> wb Zonie
<Kinkell> I have tried and tried to get them
<anneH> i would make sure there is a space before each too malibu, sometimes it does 
make a difference
-> -Kinkell- maybe looking at one that does work and seeing the order of the tags and 
comparing it to yours would help
<anneH> maybe you NOBORDER is what is not working in Netscape maliby
<Kinkell> I tried that eagle
<Ghatten> I don't THINK so...I do remember from looking into accessibility that there are 
problems with long alt tags in some browsers. I have not really researched it much.  Try adding
 the HTML 4 attribute "TITLE"  TITLE="same thing" at least it will work then in IE....
<eagle> ;-<
<anneH> I would start again, and put the FRAMESPACING etc only in the FRAMESET
 tag and see if that helps, as I still see a border too
<z-oriole> Kinkell, I can't see yours.  I have 2 image maps - on one of them I can always see
 the alts, on the other sometimes
<anneH> and take those parts out of each FRAME tag
<Kinkell> I think I give up!
<Ghatten> We need to do some experiments.
<Ghatten> LOL!  Images maps and alt tags....
<Kinkell> not funny! I have spent hours trying :(
<Zonie> the ALT tag was really meant to be seen if image didn't show up, not as a mouseover 
type thing : )
<Otter> long alt attributes work on regular images on NS
<anneH> the main difference oriole on yours, was the one that had the shorter urls worked
<Ghatten> It was not on all browsers...just some.
<anneH> you had long urls on the john muir page and that is where it did not work
* Ghatten apologizes to Kinkell. No it isn't funny, but don't want to be getting too frustrated
 with it!
<z-oriole> Yes.  Unfortunately I have no control over the Muir URLS...
<anneH> oh i know that!
<Kinkell> just kidding...I give up on it and am going on to somethng else
<anneH> but at least the image map itself works
<Ghatten> Won't be any points off..but I AM going to experiment...
<Ghatten> Hmmm something I never envisioned doing! Making image maps for experimental 
purposes!!
<Kinkell> let me know if you succeed
<Kinkell> I did it with mapedit
<Ghatten> I will probably drag all of you to look at the experiement!
<Ghatten> K
<anneH> your experiments are always fun ghatten
<Ghatten> Kinkell...please send the email again...we do not see it
<Ghatten> You want to see the latest?
<Kinkell> ok
<Ghatten> LOL
<anneH> anybody else have any questions or want us all to look at something?
<Ghatten> http://home.earthlink.net/~ghatten/indexa.html  That was the experiement using
 the <BASE HREF=> tag....use the tag test link.
<Ghatten> Yes...any last requests?
<z-oriole> Just want to say thanks again for the help - .
<z-malibu> Still stumped on the seamless frames.
<Ghatten> Maybe I should not have phrased it like that!
<Ghatten> N/p Oriole. :)
<anneH> malibu, bookmark my page and then take a look at what is different from yours
 and mine
<kittycat1> Ghatten--that DID seem a little dark!!
<Kinkell> did you see the dragon page for leapin???
<kittycat1> Rather like the firing squad--
<z-malibu> url again, anneH?
<Otter> anneH -- give your URL again for frames
<anneH> http://www.wwnet.net/~ahartman/snframe.html
<z-malibu> thanks
<Ghatten> Other than that...send us email if you still can't get it! We will figure it out!
<anneH> and also look at steve's in the lesson final sample frames on targets
<Steve> and i will help whenever
<Ghatten> Kinkell..did not see Dragon.
<Zonie> « z-malibu »: get that tutorial I gave the URL for, it's great : )
<Otter> anymore questions for HTML II -- it's about time for the other class to start!
Session Close: Sat Feb 20 19:03:53 1999