Notes

[NI0001] Birth Rec. # 12-49-003408

[NI0022] Also called Katie Quinlisk
Sponsors at Baptism were John White and Margaret White according to TNFHF review of Church records.

[NI0200] Jamie's Auntie Elizabeth Quinlisk reported in a letter to her on 11 September, 1991 that her (Elizabeth's) father, Jamie's Grandfather on her mother's side, John Quinlisk had three brothers, two of whom married and only had each one girl, therefore no one to carry on the Quinlisk name down their lines.

Elizabeth's Uncle Matthew Quinlisk had one daughter - Margaret Howard, of Vancouver.
Her other Uncle, William Quinlisk had one daughter - Babs Quinlisk (married but her married name forgotten). She had a guest house at Tramore.

Third Uncle, Jim Quinlisk, was a Lieutenant in the American Army and never married.

So Elizabeth and Jamie's mother Catherine had only two Quinlisk first cousins, both girls. They had several cousins on the female side - Whyte, Harty, Reddan.

Catherine's parents had 10 children, 6 boys and 4 girls. Catherine was number 7, born 18/8/1900, died May 1960.

P.J. Quinlisk told us during our visit in April 2000 that John had been called back from Canada to operate the farm in Ireland because his older brother had a drinking problem. They bought him a pub to operate where "he was his own best customer".

Date of birth given by PJ of 1855 has been corrected based on TNFHF details of birth records in Church.
Sponsors at Baptism were Martin and Biddy Carty (TNFHF).

[NI0201] District mistakenly spelled as Killruane rather than Killurane by researcher Norah O'Meara at the Tipperary North Family History Foundation (TNFHF).

On her gravestone (photo sent by Jane Leahy) it shows her date of death as 3 Dec. 1953. See Photo on James Quinlisk's (son's) page.[Hough.FTW]

[NI0202] I corrected the birth date given by PJ (8 March 1887) to conform with records of baptism (9 March 1889) provided by TNFHF to Jane Leahy 17 July 2000. But their transcription of records could be wrong so this should be verified.

Sponsors at Baptism were Dan Haugh and Kater Harty (TNFHF).


P.J. Telecon 02/09/00:

Said that John had two daughters, one married to a Mr. Preston. John left Ireland at the age of 15 or 16 and never returned. He was first a war correspondent for the Köln Post and later moved to South Africa and die there many years later.

According to Jamie, one of John's grandchildren (a Preston) attended university in Italy and met a student from the US whose name was Quinlisk. It turned out they were directly related. The student later met with Jamie';s Auntie Elizabeth in London and recounted this story to her.

[NI0203] Jamie says that Dan died the same year his sister wrote her famous letter to the US cousins. This is doubtful as there is a photo of him (see scrap book) with sisters Kitty and Lizzie and Kitty is at least 20 in the photo. She was born in 1900.

Cause of death unknown but an illness, not an accident. He was delicate and wore glasses.

Sponsors at Baptism were Thomas Hough and Catherine Harty (TNFHF)..

[NI0204] Jamie says that she was known all her life as Ciss but doesn't know where PJ Quinlisk got the idea she was known as Gretta.

Here is a letter that she sent to her American relations in 1915, which was kindly provided by Jane Leahy:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(written at the top of the first page, likely by one of the Harmons who had the original:
"Sent to chuck Harmon - Ciss thought she was writing to Edward, son of Ellen Quinlisk Harmon")



Silver stream
Cloughjordan
19 -2 15
{NB: This may be a transcription error. It seems clear from ages of some people mentioned (e.g. John and Dan) that the letter was actually written in 1913. But other ages confirm it was written in 1915. Also the letter indicates the War was already raging so it could not be 1913. Not quite sure what to make of this.}

My dear cousin,
We were all delighted to get your very welcome letter. It gave us great pleasure to know we had such near friends living in the USA.
Father, Mother, and us all were sorry to hear of Tom Hassett's death. But it was a consolation to know he had died a good Catholic and lived such an honorable life. Father gave the news to his brother John who has already written to you. He had not written home for some time I believe.

Before I write anymore, I will tell you what I can about your cousins here in Ireland. My Father is a first cousin of yours. His name is John Quinlisk. His father was "John" also and was a brother of your Mother. I often heard Father speak of his Aunt Ellen. Her Fathers name was Big Pat Quinlisk. My Father is now 58 years of age - but looks quite young. He is the only man out of a big family who is alive. He was the youngest, but (for) Mary who is dead some years. He has three sisters living. They have big grown-up families- some of them are married and so on. I suppose your letter was meant for my aunt who is dead. But it came here as we have a Mary, but she is only six years and cannot read, write or talk yet. So I am writing for her.

There are 10 children in our family. The eldest child, John is 25. Dan 2nd is 23 years. I am the eldest girl. (Ciss) is my name. I am 21 years. William is 20. Lizzie is 19, Jim is 17, Kitty 14, Patrick 12, Tom 9, and Mary 6.

John is away form home. He is a journalist in England (and) is doing well. Lizzie is away at school and has passed some good exams. She is going on to be a teacher. Three boys and myself are at home. While Kitty and the two youngest boys go to school every day from here. Mary will be going away to a boarding school at Easher.

We have two big farms to work. Needless to say we are kept really busy here. Father does not do much work now. He looks after everything. Mother does the same. She is just 50 years of age and looks quite young, too.

Father knew all about your Mother and her family up to about 20 years ago. But he has not heard since then only through Phil Ryan, who was home in Shirrone about 3 years ago. So he told us all about your family. He spent a day and a night here with us and we had a jolly time with him. He was very nice, too.

Now I think I have traced up the relationship as well as I can. I think I could tell all about he Quinlisk family from hearing my aunts talking. I never remember my Grandfather. He is dead 23 years now.

I suppose you are well aware of the terrible war that is going on. It is awful. There was never such a war before. It seems to be only in the beginning now. What are you Yankees going to fight for? The Germans are a great brave people - practically fighting the world. They are said to be barbarous. However, they were cruel to the poor Belgians anyway. They left them wretched. XXXX a lot of people are in favour of the Germans here when they think of all the English did on (to) us long ago. Prices have gone up here art an awful rate on account of the war. Now as Father is writing to you, I conclude with love and kindest regards from everyone here.

I remain your fond cousin,
Ciss Quinlisk, Silver Stream, Cloughjordan, Co. Tipperary, Ireland


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sponsors at her Baptism were Patrick Howe and Margaret Quinlisk. (TNFHF)

[NI0205] Sponsors at his Batism were Patrick Quinlisk and Maria Haugh (TNFHF).

Jamie says he had 5-7 children.


[Broderbund Family Archive #110, Vol. 2 M-Z, Ed. 6, Social Security Death Index: U.S., Date of Import: 26 Feb 2001, Internal Ref. #1.112.6.51564.64]

Individual: Quinlisk, William
Social Security #: 337-01-9731
Issued in: Illinois

Birth date: 5 Jan 1894
Death date: Feb 1970


Residence code: Illinois

ZIP Code of last known residence: 60616
Primary location associated with this ZIP Code:

Chicago, Illinois

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Email from Terry Franham Kovacic (granddaughter) 03/03/01:

I dont have this in a file so I'll just put it down & you can organize it as you like:
William Francis Quinlisk-born Jan 5,1894.His Uncle William died that same day.
married Anna Josephine Hoban-from Castlebar.Married in Chicago-children:
Elizabeth Jane m.Aldred Maxham-6 children
John Patrick m.3 times-1 son who is NOT named Quinlisk (adopted by mothers second husband & name changed)-Michael
Ann Kathleen m. Donald Farnham-6 children
Thomas Joseph(Red) m.7 times (!)-2 sons-named Quinlisk-Tom & Eddie
William Francis (Bud)-never married
Nora Mae m.Albert Parlich-2 children
Joseph Anthony-never married
So as you can see,we only have 2 Quinlisks in this generation & I have no idea where these boys are & if they have children.They would be about 30 years old.
Maxham children:Maureen,Ann,Karen,William,Brian & Kevin-
Farnham children:Mary,Therese,Donald,Dennis,Norah & Margaret
Parlich children:Michelle & Patrick

And again on 03/03/01:

My Uncle Red is the son of William Q-I dont believe Tom had any children.My grandfather visited Ireland in about 1935 & took only 2 of his 7 children with him-Red & Bud (Thomas & William).Some of those photos are from that visit.I have had this little pile of pictures for many years-they must have belonged to my grandfather.

[NI0206] While P.J. Quinlisk listed Elizabeth's date of birth as 21 November 1895, the card at her funeral indicated a date of 22 November 1895. The latter was her date of Baptism and was probably mistakenly recorded as her dat of birth.

The Church records show her baptised as Eliza Ann Quinlisk, with Sponsors being Michael and Catherine Quinlisk.

[NI0207] Sole Sponsor listed in church records according to Norah O'Meara (TNFHF) was a James Quinlisk.

[NI0208] Never married according to Jamie.

Sponsors at Baptism were James Harty and Ellen White. (TNFHF)

[NI0209] The Tipp. Nth. Family History Foundation has him down as Frances Michael on his Baptismal Certificate. Jamie never heard of this and thinks its a transcription errror.

They show his sponors as Patrick White and Elizabeth Harty.

03/03/01
Jamie says he married a widow (can't remember her name) with several children and one of them was killed while riding a bike. They had one child together.

[NI0210] According to Jamie, Mary fell off a wall as a child and injured her head. She was never quite normal after that and had to be institionalised eventually after her mother died.

TNFHF has her listed as Maria Bridget on her baptism record at church but Jamie thinks it should be Mary. They show her sponsors as William Quinlisk and Elizabeth Anna Quinlisk

[NI0219] Never Married

[NI0327] Sponsors at Baptism were William White and Susan Carthy (TNFHF)

[NI0337] Michaela and Sarah Quinlisk were sponsors at Baptism (TNFHF).

Terry Farnham Kovacic says that he died on January 5, 1894, the same day his namesake nephew was born.

[NI0338] Never Married

[NI0339] Married. Owned a guest house at Tramore

[NI0341] Email from Paul Howard 11/06/01:

They married in the Liverpool area and emigrated to Canada in 1929. My grandfather was born in Lee near Lancaster UK.

[NI0356] Email from Terry Franham Kovacic 03/03/01:
William Francis (Bud)-never married

Email from Terry Franham Kovacic 04/03/01:
My Uncle Red is the son of William Q-I dont believe Tom had any children.My grandfather visited Ireland in about 1935 & took only 2 of his 7 children with him-Red & Bud (Thomas & William).Some of those photos are from that visit.I have had this little pile of pictures for many years-they must have belonged to my grandfather.

[NI0920] The folowing information was found on a photograph sent to us by Jane Leahy on August 4, 2000 showing the Memorial Pat erected in Clougjordan RC Cemetary in honour of his parents, wife, siblings and children, where he, his son and granson are also memorialised. It says:

"ERECTED BY PATK. QUINLISK of Roscrea in Memory of His Wife CATHERINE alias HEENAN Who Died Octr 12th 1869 Aged 45 Yrs. Also His Father PATK. Who Died May 13th 1861 Aged 75 Years. His Mother JOHANA Died in A.D. 1825 Aged 36 Years. His Brother MICH. and Sister Anne and Nine Children. And Also His Two Daughters Hanna Mary Died 4 Feby 1881 Aged 23 Yrs. Kate Hawley Died Octbr 31 1885 Aged 22 Yrs. They [sic] Above Named Patk. Quinlisk Died Oct. 4 1888 Aged 62 Years.

John Quinlisk Silverstream, Cloughjordan Died 4 July, 1927. His Son Pat Died 10 Jan. 1984. R.I.P."

Photo can be viewed in Patrick Quinlisk Scrapbook

[NI0930] Sponsors at Baptism were Denis and Kate Quinlisk (TNFHF)

[NI0931] John and Mrs. Quinlisk listed as sponsors at Baptism (TNFHF).

[NI0934] Email from Mary Harmon Braun 01/03/01:

I have death certificates and obituary for James H. Harmon. He was born Jan 26, 1859 in Monroe, Ohio Butler Co. He died December 29, 1943. He was 84 yrs 11mths and 3 days old. He was a retired farmer. It states his father as Thomas Harmon and mother as Ellen Quinlish both of Ireland. The informant was C. C. Rupp. He is buried in Monroe, Ohio, Butler Co. Mound Cemetery. He was a member of Church of Seven Dolores Catholic Church in Monroe.

[NI1088] Email from Terry Harmon Kovacic 03/03/01:
Elizabeth Jane m.Aldred Maxham-6 children
Maxham children:Maureen,Ann,Karen,William,Brian & Kevin-

[NI1166] 22/08/00

See email to Jane Leahy 05/08/00. I found this information on www.findagrave.com

I am assuming this is the son of William Quinlisk in Chicago, ergo Jamie's first cousin. She mistakenly thought his name was James.[Broderbund Family Archive #110, Vol. 2 M-Z, Ed. 6, Social Security Death Index: U.S., Date of Import: 26 Feb 2001, Internal Ref. #1.112.6.51564.60]

Individual: Quinlisk, Thomas
Social Security #: 345-20-5277
Issued in: Illinois

Birth date: 7 Mar 1930
Death date: 19 Jan 1993


ZIP Code of last known residence: 77508
Primary location associated with this ZIP Code:

Pasadena, Texas

03/03/01:

Known as Red according to his niece, Terese Farnham Kovacic
Thomas Joseph(Red) m.7 times (!)-2 sons-named Quinlisk-Tom & Eddie

04/03/01 email from Terry Franham Kovacic:

My Uncle Red is the son of William Q-I dont believe Tom had any children.My grandfather visited Ireland in about 1935 & took only 2 of his 7 children with him-Red & Bud (Thomas & William).Some of those photos are from that visit.I have had this little pile of pictures for many years-they must have belonged to my grandfather.

[NI1167] 22/08/00

I am assuming this is the son of William Quinlisk in Chicago, ergo Jamie's first cousin. Got details on address from Netscape People Finder.

19/03/01

Transcript of a Christmas card from John P. to Kay O'Brien Morry on 29 Dec. 1994:
"Dear Kay,
Just a note to thank you for the nice Christmas card.
I'm John P., your Uncle Bill's oldest son. I met your brother Sean in '47 thereabouts. He was returning from Australia where he had a job as a underwater welder. I was much impressed at the time - I had re-turned home from the Pacific and was discharged from the Marines in Dec. 45.
I worked for my father in the Quarry where he was Foreman. We lived in a large house on a farm in the Heart of Chicago as we had a cow, horses, chickens & ducks. This Quarry is only three miles South of the Loop, the "Loop" being downtown Chicago.
My Father retired from the Quarry in '49 and he bought a farm up in Wisconsin with my mom and the youngest of seven, my brother Joe.
They sold the farm and moved back to their house in Chicago in '55.
Growing up in Chicago was a great experience for me, I was born in April '26.
I remember all the relatives and friends that visited my folks in "our" big house by the Quarry.
My Mom was a Hoban, Ann, from Castlebar, County Mayo. I believe her and Dad marriedin '24.
When my Dad first left Ireland he went to Canada and worked as a lumberjack for a while before coming down to Chicago.
I'll close for now, Kay, I wish I had more specific dates for events.
The best to you and all your family,
Your Cousin
John"

[NI1168] 22/08/00

I am assuming this is the wife of son of William Quinlisk in Chicago. Got details on address from Netscape People Finder.

[NI1170] Place of residence at marriage looks like Clonlisk on the hand-written transcription of mariage record by Norah O'Meara, TNFHF.

[NI1171] William and Mary Quinlisk were sponsors at Baptism (TNFHF)

[NI1194] -----Original Message-----
From: Jane D Leahy [mailto:leahy1jd@cmich.edu]
Sent: March 3, 2001 2:09 PM
To: takro; Chris Morry; Braun; Kathy Nenni; Pj Quinlisk
Subject: Quinlisk obit


Greetings!

This was sent to me this afternoon by Lorna Quinlisk Hahn, one of my Mother's first cousins. Her Father was Michael Quinlisk, grandson of "our" Michael Q. and Anna Fogarty ancestors!
Jane


obit ---

Joseph Quinlisk

Joseph Anthony Quinlisk,64, a 40-year resident of Yucca Valley , died Feb 28, 2001. in Joshua Tree. He was born April 5, 1936 tp William Francis and Ann Josephine Hoban Quinlisk Sr. in Chicago. He was a truck driver for 25 years and his last employer before retirement was Carey-Herbert Trucking.

He is survived by his companion Sylvia Garcia of Yucca Valley, his sister Ann K Farnham of Riverside,; and his brother, William F. Quinlisk Jr. of Phoenix.

Private arrangements are under the direction of Rose Mortuary of Desert Hot
Springs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Email from Terry Franham Kovacic 03/03/01:

Joseph Anthony-never married

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Christmas card to Kay O'Brien Morry from her first cousin John P. Quinlisk in 1994 noted that his brother Joe was the youngest of the 7 children of her Uncle Bill.

[NI1239] Moved to US where she had many descendents according to Jane Leahy, one of them.

Email 20/06/00:

"Thomas Harmon married Ellen Quinlisk, who Ciss identifies as her father's aunt. A generation later, Michael's daughter Sarah marries Ellen's son, James. And a researcher here in the states, a friend of a Quinlisk cousin, found a ship's log that suggested Michael and Ellen came over to the US together in about 1851. From that I have inferred a family relationship???? "


03/09/00

BUT!!!

There is a great deal of inference needed to establish the these relationships:

* According to Jane Leahy, she had an ancestor named Michael Quinlisk who emigrated to the US in about 1850-51

* Michael was apparently the son of a John Quinlisk and a Sarah Ryan and he was born about Oct. 1830.

* When Michael emigrated he was accompanied by an Ellen Quinlisk, relationship unknown. But they were not husband and wife and were more likely close blood relations. This Ellen would probably have had to been born in about 1930 or earlier in order to emigrate in 1950-51

* Later on, again according to Jane, Michael's daughter Sarah marrys Ellen's son James by Thomas Harmon.

Now the interesting part! Ciss Quinlisk reported in her 1915 letter to US "cousins" that her father's Aunt Ellen did in fact emigrate to the US. Are they one and the same Ellen?

Well we don't know from Ciss when this Ellen was born but if she was in the same generation as Ciss's father's father she should have been born at about the right time. Therefore it seems feasible that these are the same Ellen. But there is another Ellen on recod born in 1931 (see data included) who could equally well have been the right one.

To establish the relationship we will need to confirm if Jamie's 2G Aunt married Thomas Harmon. Until then, I am not making the connection.



03/09/00

Ciss Quinlisk (see her letter to US relatives in 1915) thought that this was her father's aunt but there is no way of proving the relationship at the moment unless we can find out if her Great Aunt Ellen married a Thomas Harmon.

>>>>>>>>>>>

From: Jane D Leahy [leahy1jd@cmich.edu]
Sent: September 4, 2000 11:34 AM
To: Chris Morry
Subject: Quinlisks
Hi Chris, I'm sure glad that you are "mulling over the Quinlisks"!  I've done that a lot of times, but not enough lately! I did read the terrific descendant chart you sent earlier many times, and did find some items in relation to Ellen that are inconsistent. I know what you are basing it on, and although I can't reconcile it, I also don't have a better"offer" at this time. What I would like to do is spend a few hours on it today and email you this evening with any thoughts, etc.   It seems to me that Ciss's letter to Ellen Harmon's son is compelling evidence of the relationship, but although I have a ship's entry that would support the traveling of Michael and Ellen together in 1851, I can't be positive of their relationship, or even absolutely positive that the two were our Michael and Ellen! The genealogist friend of my Quinlisk cousin who found that datum said that a 16 year old woman would have not likely traveled to America by herself at that time, but that to travel with a cousin would have been very reasonable. Also, given Ciss's family's apparent economic circumstances, and extrapolating that to Ellen (I know, a jump of faith :-)), it seems likely that arrangements would have been made for her??????   I do know that Ellen Quinlisk married Thomas Harmon. They are buried together in Calvary Cemetery, Middletown Ohio, Butler County. She was b. 1836, d. 1908; he was born 1836, d.1892. They were both born in Ireland. I did just realize that I don't have their death certificates, which could be important information. Some I've learned have very little on them, but the potential is there for parent's names and place of birth. So many just say "Ireland" though. I will request those tomorrow. Just thought - there was a disastrous flood in Butler county (much of the SW Ohio area) in 1913, and MANY of their vital stats records were lost. I may run in to that, but will try.   I did hear from the genealogist recently, and he kindly offered to help me more if I needed that. I think I may tell him of our dilemma and see if he has any insights to offer, or suggestions as to "where" to go from here. With your permission I will send him a copy of your chart for "Patrick Quinlisk". Cameron retired from an eastern university some time ago, and lives in California. He continues to do research at Salt Lake City several times a year, as well as almost monthly at the Ohio Hx Society in Columbus. I think if anyone can help me, he can.   Guess I've written a lot more than I intended, but will write again this evening. Thanks once again for wonderful photos. I do appreciate and enjoy them very much!   More tonight Jane        

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

From: Jane D Leahy [leahy1jd@cmich.edu]
Sent: February 2, 2001 11:03 AM
To: Chris Morry
Subject: Re: Catching up

Hi Chris,
Glad to hear from you! You know, what you said about Michael and Ellen is
really interesting because one of Ellen's descendants, a g-granddaughter had
written in a letter that was shared with me that Michael's daughter had
married her first cousin!! But as I thought it couldn't be true, assumed it
was an error. The Harmon/Quinlisk who I correspond with, Ellen's direct
descendant, also made the assumption that I did - that it had to be an
error???? The fact they traveled together would also lend credence to their
possible having been siblings - though cousins would also seem a
possibility?? It is interesting, isn't it!

I think I sent you the last thing I received, but not certain. I was about
to send them to PJ and will send to you also. I received a letter in the
Fall from Ireland and Nora included a letter from the parish priest
regarding his being unable to send the certificates at this time. Nora said
she will send them on if she gets them. I'll send a copy of the letters,
too.

Think I will write soon to the Harmons and see what they think about the
first cousin possibility again! Also maybe write to the US researcher who
found the first data on Michael and Ellen and see what he thinks.

Best wishes to you and Jamie.
Jane


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Morry"
To: "Jane D Leahy"
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:01 PM
Subject: Catching up


> Hi Jane and Happy New Year:
>
> I'm just writing to find out if you have received any new and interesting
> bits of information on the Quinlisk's since last we corresponded? I
haven't
> been working in that part of the family tree for quite some time and when
I
> looked it over this evening I was every bit as confused as the last time.
So
> I thought maybe your archivist in Ireland had provided you with some more
> substantive information on who exactly Michael and Ellen were.
>
> I had a thought that you might find intriguing. Ciss said she had an Aunt
> Ellen and you have deduced that it is this Ellen. But we can't place
> Michael. However, Ciss's Aunt Ellen also had a brother Michael (ergo
Ciss's
> Uncle).
>
> Is it possible your Ellen and Michael were not first cousins at all but
> brother and sister? If their respective children, James and Sarah, who
would
> therefore be first cousins, were to marry, this would be strictly against
> the rules of both the State and Church. But these things did happen and
were
> usually covered up. One way to cover it up would be for two immigrants to
> falsify their relationship to each other, saying they were cousins and not
> siblings. Who would be any the wiser, with the kinds of patchy records we
> know existed at the time?
>
> This is pure speculation on my part so don't think I have any factual
> evidence to back it up. It just seemed like an intriguing possibility. It
> seems to me far more likely that a brother and sister would emigrate
> together than a male and female cousin.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Chris Morry
> 4835 Av. Bessborough
> Montrial (Quibec)
> CANADA H4V 2S2
> (514) 482-2428
> (514) 287-9057 Fax
> chris.morry@sympatico.ca
> http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/m/o/r/Chris-J-Morry/index.html
>


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


From: Chris Morry [chris.morry@sympatico.ca]
Sent: February 18, 2001 12:01 PM
To: Jane D Leahy
Subject: RE: re Quinlisks

Dear Jane:

All of this conjecture and hearsay may not be decisive evidence but it is bringing us tantalisingly close the truth, don't you think? I do hope that in your further conversations with Ellen's direct descendants you are able to acquire copies of some vestige of written records that will help to finally nail this all down. Of course that will still bring us no closer to the true relationship of Michael and Ellen, if indeed they were covering that up to avoid the wrath of Church and State. They may well have destroyed every written bit of evidence they could have gotten their hands on. But in Ireland there could well be one way of almost proving the hypothesis that they were siblings, by destroying the counter-hypothesis that they were first cousins. This could be done if it can be shown that Ellen didn't have a first cousin named Michael. Perhaps this is a task to assign to Nora. I doubt that PJ can help us with information that far back.

On a slight side-track from this, you may recall that Nora O'Meara was able to provide birth records for another Ellen Quinlisk, daughter of a Daniel Quinlisk and Mary Gleeson, and born about March 1831. Her birth was recorded as taking place in Knockinglass, a lovely village on the shores of Loch Derg, and her baptism was recorded at the same church where Jamie was baptised in "Toomevara" (spelled the English way). Despite these enticing similarities between the families, I am now confident that this is definitely not "our" Ellen, though it is probable that this line is in some other manner related to the family. Just thought I'd mention that and thereby set aside for the record one confusing and unhelpful piece of information. That leaves only two Ellen Quinlisk's in my database and I am now merging them as one and the same.

When I've made all these corrections I'll somehow excise the Quinlisk line from my bigger Morry database and let you have a copy. I'm not sure how to do that just yet but I'll figure it out.

Bye for now.

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Jane D Leahy [mailto:leahy1jd@cmich.edu]
Sent: February 16, 2001 10:59 AM
To: Chris Morry
Subject: re Quinlisks


Good to hear from you this morning!
Your project sounds great - I'm anxious to see the result. I do have a bit of once again anecdotal information from Kathy Harmon Nenni which came from her great aunt, Ellen's granddaughter. She wrote to her something that neither of us had yet heard. She said that James Harmon (Ellen's son) and Sarah Quinlisk (Michael's daughter) had "run away to Cincinnati to be married, as their parents were vehemently opposed to their marriage because they were cousins". ????? Would there be such opposition to second cousins marrying? I really don't know, but thought that was legal in civil court and acceptable in the church, but perhaps not. After mass this Saturday I'll ask our priest about that - see if he knows the status of that then. It does seem to once again substantiate Ellen and Michael as at least cousins.

Kathy and I talked for a long time on the phone and are planning to get together in May (she's going to be gone a lot til then - wish it could be sooner). Another Harmon cousin will be there, and we hope Kathy's two aunts - one is mid to late 70s and the other, I think in her 90s. I told her I'd really like to focus on Ellen! Kathy had found an obituary for Ellen and the memorial/marker for her and her husband in Calvary Cemetery in Middletown. So I do know for sure that she was born August 18, 1835 "in Tipperary Ireland and came to the United States when she was 14" (probably 15 actually). She died September 8, 1908. What would be enormously helpful would be to get her death certificate - that is, if it contains her parents names. It has amazed me how often they did not. Always a real disappointment! Yesterday after talking with her, I did request a copy of it - and think she was going to pursue that, too. She lives in that area of Ohio, so hope she will come up with it soon!. The only other "rub" is that in 1913 there was an incredible (1/500 years type) flood in southwestern Ohio, and lots of records were lost. There have been others whose lost was attributed to the flood. I sure hope it is available! Just thought, we should also pursue the church records - her death was after her church burned. One problem with that is that the priests in the rural areas of Warren County traveled and Kathy learned that they generally kept the records with them!! So there were maybe four churches in which they could eventually be "deposited"! It is of interest to me, too, that Ellen is buried in the same cemetery as Michael Quinlisk and his wife, Anna Fogarty. Actually my Ryan grandparents, Ryan/Melampy g-grandparents, and Melampy/Quinlisk g-g-grandparents are also buried there!! Maybe that's because it was Holy Trinity's cemetery - and they were all Irish :-)!

I will quit for now!
Jane

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Email from Mary Harmon Braun 01/03/01:

I found in the index, The Famine Immigrants List of Irish Immigrants Arriving at the Port of New York 1846-1851 , Vol. VII, pg. 418 a Michael Quinlak 18yrs, on July 9, 1851 leaving Liverpool on ship New Hampshire. I also found an Ellen Quinlist 16yrs, a servant, on the same ship. Above her name was a Catherine Ryan 36 yrs. I didn't see anything that would indicate they were related at this time. The estimated date of their births would seem to connect with the ages of these two.

[NI1240] Known as Sallie according to Mary Harmon Braun (email 01/03/01)

I also the death certificate for Sarah Quinlisk Harmon as well as the obit. It states Michael Quinlisk and Anna Fogarty as parents. She died March 9, 1942 in Monroe, Ohio Butler Co.

[NI1241] Email from Terry Franham Kovacic 03/03/01:
Ann Kathleen m. Donald Farnham-6 children
Farnham children:Mary,Therese,Donald,Dennis,Norah & Margaret

[NI1392] The folowing information was found on a photograph sent to us by Jane Leahy on August 4, 2000 showing the Memorial Pat erected in Clougjordan RC Cemetary in honour of his parents, wife, siblings and children, where he, his son and granson are also memorialised. It says:

"ERECTED BY PATK. QUINLISK of Roscrea in Memory of His Wife CATHERINE alias HEENAN Who Died Octr 12th 1869 Aged 45 Yrs. Also His Father PATK. Who Died May 13th 1861 Aged 75 Years. His Mother JOHANA Died in A.D. 1825 Aged 36 Years. His Brother MICH. and Sister Anne and Nine Children. And Also His Two Daughters Hanna Mary Died 4 Feby 1881 Aged 23 Yrs. Kate Hawley Died Octbr 31 1885 Aged 22 Yrs. They [sic] Above Named Patk. Quinlisk Died Oct. 4 1888 Aged 62 Years.

John Quinlisk Silverstream, Cloughjordan Died 4 July, 1927. His Son Pat Died 10 Jan. 1984. R.I.P."

20/02/01

I have a suspicion that Patrick married a second time after his wife Johana died at age 36 because there can be no other explanation for the ages of Ellen and others of her siblings who were born long after Johana's reputed date of death in 1825. The only other possibility is that this Pat is not the "Big Pat" whom Ellen and the other ancestors of Jamie and Jane are descended from. I have merely assumed this because PJ Quinlisk took both Jane and us to see his grave marker. This is one of the biggest questions to be answered in this family tree.

[NI1474] It seems that Anne and 9 of her children died around the same time. Whether this was a famine related catastrophe or disease is not known. This much is derived from the information on the Memorial in Cloughjordan RC Church yard erected in honour of family members by her brother Patrick:

"The folowing information was found on a photograph sent to us by Jane Leahy on August 4, 2000 showing the Memorial Pat erected in Clougjordan RC Cemetary in honour of his parents, wife, siblings and children, where he, his son and granson are also memorialised. It says:

"ERECTED BY PATK. QUINLISK of Roscrea in Memory of His Wife CATHERINE alias HEENAN Who Died Octr 12th 1869 Aged 45 Yrs. Also His Father PATK. Who Died May 13th 1861 Aged 75 Years. His Mother JOHANA Died in A.D. 1825 Aged 36 Years. His Brother MICH. and Sister Anne and Nine Children. And Also His Two Daughters Hanna Mary Died 4 Feby 1881 Aged 23 Yrs. Kate Hawley Died Octbr 31 1885 Aged 22 Yrs. They [sic] Above Named Patk. Quinlisk Died Oct. 4 1888 Aged 62 Years.

John Quinlisk Silverstream, Cloughjordan Died 4 July, 1927. His Son Pat Died 10 Jan. 1984. R.I.P."

[NI1475] Email from Terry Farnham Kovacic 03/03/01:
Nora Mae m.Albert Parlich-2 children
Parlich children:Michelle & Patrick

[NI1480] 19/02/01
There is no solid evidence to connect this Patrick Quinlisk to the John Quinlisk I believe to be the father of "Big Pat" except location and presumed date of birth based on wifes age noted on gravestone. The names John and Patrick are probably the most common names in Ireland and this is a real stretch but is tentatively offered as a relationship for now.

I am only estimating his date of birth from that of his spouse. I have no evidence of thie.

[NI1483] 19/02/01
I am making a leap of faith at this time that the Patrick Quinlisk of Behamore who erected this gravestone in his father's (John Qunilisk's) memory is "Big Pat", the ancestor of all the Quinlisk's of this family tree. It seems unlikely that there would have been another Patrick Quinlisk in Behamore at the same time as this one.

[NI1489] 11 April 2001
The record of this person's birth to Patrick Quinlisk and Catherine Quinlisk (sic) was found by Jane Leahy in IGI records of LDS. It appears likely, due to the names of parents and the location, that the mother is actually Catherine Heenan and this is another sister to Kate and Hannah whose existence is known from the family memorial in Cloughjordan cemetery.

[NI1586] From: P. Howard [phoward@telus.net]
Sent: June 10, 2001 6:37 PM
To: chris.morry@sympatico.ca
Subject: Quinlisk Family

Hi Folks!

Just came across your Morry Family tree pages. My Aunt Norah Anglin {deceased} was a Howard related to the Quinlisks through her mother Margaret Ann who married John Howard in West Derby UK.

I think we missed connecting over the years. I traveled to Ottawa every now and then when I believe you were living in Nepean doing some kind of contract work.

I am researching the Howard family tree and the Quinlisk connection. I believe that Kate is related on the Quinlisk side?

The only family contact I have is P.J. Quinlisk in Cloughjordan. PJQSilverstream@yahoo.co.uk
You might get more info re Quinlisk From him.

Paul Howard
Coquitlam, BC

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From: P. Howard [phoward@telus.net]
Sent: June 11, 2001 10:52 PM
To: Chris Morry
Subject: Howard Family

Hi Chris!

Nice to hear from you maybe we will get to meet oneday?

My father was William Howard "Billy" as you said Norah's younger brother. There was also my Uncle "Willy" who I assume was William Quinlisk my grandmothers(Margaret Ann) brother.

One thing I am trying to determine is How my grandfather and grandmother met. They married in the Liverpool area and emigrated to Canada in 1929. My grandfather was born in Lee near Lancaster UK. So I wonder how Margaret Ann Quinlisk came to be in Liverpool. There was also Elizabeth Quinlisk who lived in London who was a wealth of info but at the time I wasn't really that interested, but she mentioned that I had cousins in Australia from the Quinlisk side of the family.

Anyway I have to get to my packing for the trip. I will be in touch when we get back at the end of July


All the Best

Paul and Gloria

1349 Ross Ave
Coquitlam, BC
V3J-2K2
(604)939-5798

[NF03] In email from Jane Leahy 05/08/00:

"I've been going thru the items I just received from Nora [O'Meara, TNFHF researcher] in Ireland , and some additional things I hadn't thoroughly looked at include the wedding date for John and Bridget Q. - 2 December, 1888. Says John was from Silverstream and Bridget from Killruane [Should be Killurane]. Witnesses to their marriage were Patrick Quinlisk and Norah Manion."

This date is an error evidently as the printout shows February 13, 1888

[NF04] According to Extract from the Marriage Record transcribed by Father Enda Burke, PP St. Mary's in Parish of Shinrone, Diocese of Killaloe, (sent by mail by Jane Leahy on 20/02/01) John Quinlisk was incorrectly listed in the record as John Quinlan (same surname as wife).

Sponsors were John Cleary and Margaret Quinlan (sister of bride?). (TNFHF)
Father Francis Meehan performed the ceremony.

Father Burke incorrectly reversed the digits in the year of marriage; he recorded it as 8/2/1864, when it should have been 8/2/1846.

[NF22] Email from Terry Franham Kovacic 03/03/01:
Joseph Anthony-never married