Subject: FORMULA T2 & GP2 SETUP & MORE From: Eric Cote Date: 1996/08/20 Message-Id: <4vdesc$3ql@news.istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii Organization: iSTAR Internet Incorporated Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) IN REPLY to Andreas, here's some helpull hint on how to set your FORMULA T1/T2 with GP2 and also some hints on SETTING-UP your car >Andreas Partie wrote: >Is there anybody who have car setups optimized for driving with the T2? >please let me know. >As well as i like to know how to set up the T2 probably I would like to >know if you have some car set up's to drive with (you know front wing, >...) >Because it seems that there is a need for different car set up's to run >your car fast. >I could not reach fast times with Joystick or Keybord setup. > >-- >Mit freundlichen Gruessen > >Andreas Partie Hello Andreas,i'll send you how to set your T2: 1-Under control device choose NOT USED. 2-Go at ADVANCE 3- STEERING DEVICE: JOYSTICK A HORIZONTAL MODE:ANALOG LOW SENSIVITY ZONE:45-55% (my preference is 50%)--> the lower the #, the higher will be the steering response. ED.note: You can go down to 20% my setting is 25%! STEERING HELP: OFF OPPOSITE LOCK: ON --> this is going to help you when you exit a corner and if you start to oversteer, you can correct it.If you choose OFF, it will be very difficult to correct oversteer. MAX LOCK:16-19 degrees (My preference for all circuit is 18) This what is called LOCK to LOCK Ed.note: Up to 30 degrees my setting is 25 degrees! REDUCE WITH SPEED:60-75% (My preference is 65%)--> The higher the # the lower the sensitivity of your steering will be at increasing speed. 4-ACCELERATION DEVICE: JOYSTICK B HORIZONTAL LOW SENSIVITY: 100% --> The higher the #, more it will be progressive when you accelerate. (same thing apply to BRAKE DEVICE) MODE: ANALOG 5- BRAKE DEVICE: JOYSTICK B HORIZONTAL MODE: ANALOG LOW SENSIVITY: 100% 6- CLUTCH DEVICE: USE GEAR CHANGE (default value) SENSITIVITY: 50% (default value) 7- GEAR CHANGE: CHANGE UP:JOYSTICK A FIRE 1 CHANGE DOWN:JOYSTICK A FIRE 2 note: JOYSTICK B FIRE 1 & 2 are the 2 red BUTTON on your steering housing. note 2: There's no JOYSTICK A & B VERTICAL (which could be use has a CLUTCH DEVICE. However it's possible to build one, although i'm not sure if there's any wire that are unused at the joystick/game PORT. We should check that with Thrusmasters. note 3:Are you using a GAMECARD (like THRUSMASTERS ICM GAME CARD)? IF NO: all the SENSITIVITY will have to be adjusted to your need. Now concerning the setups on your car: Every track has different setups. 1- However a good rule of thumb is having more WING ANGLE at the rear than the front. note:too much rear WING will decrease dramatically your TOP SPEED,in some case (like MONZA,HOCKENHEIM RING,SPA-FRANCORCHAMP) you'll have to put more FRONT WING than REAR,in this case, you'll have to "counter-act" the effect of this oversteer with the rest of the setups. 2-The same applies to SPRING RATE (put more in front than rear).This way your car will be understeering (which is desirable at some extent). 3-ANTIROLL BAR: try 2000-4000 lbs/in at front try 50-250 lbs/in at rear note: you will have to play with these numbers and see how it's reacting. note 2:these change are most effective at LOW and MEDIUM speed,but has effect at HIGH SPEED CORNERING 4- DAMPERS: try to use level 2 setup: LOW SPEED: always use a big # at front and low # at rear ex: 15-22 at front , 7-12 at rear HIGH SPEED: Try to use front and rear very close to each other. note: REBOUND DAMPER: % should be about 65-75% of the # of BUMP DAMPER ex: REBOUND DAMPER (front):15 and BUMP DAMPERS:19 please note: these are only example,every track has different needs. 5- RIDE HEIGHT(important):try to use always the lowest # as possible because the lower the car the higher will be the undercar downforce (more cornering speed) note: the front RIDE HEIGHT will be around 27-33 mm depending of TRACKS the rear RIDE HEIGHT will be arond 45-55 mm depending of TRACKS note 2: when modifying the height, always try to compare with the GRAPH with two different setups. note 3:You can actually change how the car reacts (under/oversteer) in high speed corners, independly of the rest of your setup. 6-PACKERS: this affect the TRAVELLING of your suspension (USEFUL in S type CORNERS) like rapid change of steering direction. note: If TRACK is very bumpy you will have to decrease the PACKERS HEIGHT in mm note: this is the trickiest adjustment, always modify slowly without modifying anything else and see the result-->TRACK TIME and again the GRAPH (use SUSPENSION TRAVEL (each wheel) note 3: when you increase the PACKERS again check SUSPENSION TRAVEL at the GRAPH and try to have some suspension travel both front and rear (FRONT should be lower than REAR) TRICKS: if you already do not know, when practicing use FETCH GRAPH and then VIEW GRAPH --> this way you can see the change without going out of the track ie:you don't have to SAVE HOT LAP to view the GRAPH. 2- ALWAYS ZOOM IN the GRAPH in horizontal mode (X32) and CLICK MAP. This way you can check all parameters very closely. 3- Don't forget to save SETUP as often as possible (with different names).And when saving HOTLAPS use same names according to the same SETUP --> thsi way you will eventually see the correlation. 4- I can say that i'm using alot of GRAPH/SETUP change to increase my LAP time. 5- You'll find out, that the RACE AND QUALIFYING SETUP are different because of the heavier fuel LOAD. NB: if you download any SETUP file or HOTLAP from any WWW site,for a specific track,you will find that most setups won't fit your driving. I have found that every persons as different way to drive,and most importantly every PC & STEERING device are different,so from my personal experience it never really fits my driving. Altough you can actually find some valuable information from these files (how to take corners,gear,setups) That's all Andreas, hope it will be useful, i just want to mention that i'm far from beeing an expert, i'm learning like you and the rest of us all. Eric How to setup your GP2 car by Eric Cote. Now concerning the setups on your car: Every track has different setups. 1- However a good rule of thumb is having more WING ANGLE at the rear than the front. note:too much rear WING will decrease dramatically your TOP SPEED,in some case (like MONZA,HOCKENHEIM RING,SPA-FRANCORCHAMP) you'll have to put more FRONT WING than REAR,in this case, you'll have to "counter-act" the effect of this oversteer with the rest of the setups. 2-The same applies to SPRING RATE (put more in front than rear).This way your car will be understeering (which is desirable at some extent). 3-ANTIROLL BAR: try 2000-4000 lbs/in at front try 50-250 lbs/in at rear note: you will have to play with these numbers and see how it's reacting. note 2:these change are most effective at LOW and MEDIUM speed,but has effect at HIGH SPEED CORNERING 4- DAMPERS: try to use level 2 setup: LOW SPEED: always use a big # at front and low # at rear ex: 15-22 at front , 7-12 at rear HIGH SPEED: Try to use front and rear very close to each other. note: REBOUND DAMPER: % should be about 65-75% of the # of BUMP DAMPER ex: REBOUND DAMPER (front):15 and BUMP DAMPERS:19 please note: these are only example,every track has different needs. 5- RIDE HEIGHT(important):try to use always the lowest # as possible because the lower the car the higher will be the undercar downforce (more cornering speed) note: the front RIDE HEIGHT will be around 27-33 mm depending of TRACKS the rear RIDE HEIGHT will be arond 45-55 mm depending of TRACKS note 2: when modifying the height, always try to compare with the GRAPH with two different setups. note 3:You can actually change how the car reacts (under/oversteer) in high speed corners, independly of the rest of your setup. 6-PACKERS: this affect the TRAVELLING of your suspension (USEFUL in S type CORNERS) like rapid change of steering direction. note: If TRACK is very bumpy you will have to decrease the PACKERS HEIGHT in mm note: this is the trickiest adjustment, always modify slowly without modifying anything else and see the result-->TRACK TIME and again the GRAPH (use SUSPENSION TRAVEL (each wheel) note 3: when you increase the PACKERS again check SUSPENSION TRAVEL at the GRAPH and try to have some suspension travel both front and rear (FRONT should be lower than REAR) TRICKS: if you already do not know, when practicing use FETCH GRAPH and then VIEW GRAPH --> this way you can see the change without going out of the track ie:you don't have to SAVE HOT LAP to view the GRAPH. 2- ALWAYS ZOOM IN the GRAPH in horizontal mode (X32) and CLICK MAP. This way you can check all parameters very closely. 3- Don't forget to save SETUP as often as possible (with different names).And when saving HOTLAPS use same names according to the same SETUP --> thsi way you will eventually see the correlation. 4- I can say that i'm using alot of GRAPH/SETUP change to increase my LAP time. 5- You'll find out, that the RACE AND QUALIFYING SETUP are different because of the heavier fuel LOAD. NB: if you download any SETUP file or HOTLAP from any WWW site,for a specific track,you will find that most setups won't fit your driving. I have found that every persons as different way to drive,and most importantly every PC & STEERING device are different,so from my personal experience it never really fits my driving. Altough you can actually find some valuable information from these files (how to take corners,gear,setups) _______________________________________________________________________________ How to know when oversteer, understeer and wheel locking manifest themselves in the logged data? First look at WHEELSPIN. Now for wheel lock, it's easy, you'll see a suddon (sharp) decrease of speed (normally front tires (eg:yellow & green line)).If the reverse i guess you made nice spin. For front lock, you'll have to change FRONT/BACK brake ratio until you find it satisfying. (I HAVE FOUND that it's almost impossible to prevent any wheel lock,just by playing with the RATIO,you'll have to change your braking style,eg:just before it's locks, try to lift the brake before you finish your brake entry. What i do here is brake full power,downshift, and then "modulate" braking for the last 10% braking distance before entering a corner (this is a typical corner). By the way, you see how you brake with the GRAPH again. Now for oversteer/understeer on the GRAPH, it's the same principle as brake lock (in terms of suddon "spike" of speed change). If you have a gentle under/oversteer it might be impossible to detect on the GRAPH. One more trick, use full zoom in X axis (X32) and use the MAP icon, this way you'll see where's your improvment in driving style and setup changes. _________________________________________________________________________________ Hello to all, as promissed i will try to demistify a little bit DAMPERS adjusment for GP2.I'm not here to say that i totally know everything about all aspect on DAMPERS setup, but i will give you my own interpretation of how it affects handling, and most importantly how to improve handling in qualifying session and raceday event. How many time you've been to the limit entering or exiting a corner (either low or high speed) and after hitting the cerbstones (in french it's called "vibreur") all of the suddon your car overreact and goes out of control and after few 360's your in the wall, or sand trap ??? So your reaction will be ,i will adjust my wings,springs or heights to prevent this situation and make the car less responsive : WRONG! You probably use too much BUMP/REBOUND DAMPERS either FRONT or/and REAR. How do we adjust these dampers to prevent this situation ??? Let's review what the dampers are made for. BUMP DAMPERS: as it says,the role of bump dampers is used to keep the tires from overreacting over a bump/cerbstone and keeping the wheel on the track which translate in more grip.In the process of hitting a bump,the tires will naturaly go off the ground,BUMP DAMPERS if adjusted properly will prevent this situation. We can view this as the wheel motion is moving UP. REBOUND DAMPERS: 1-this is working in opposite direction (moving DOWN),and in conjuncture with the bump dampers,it's going to put back the wheel on the track, but it is not the primary purpose. While you're in a corner (ex:left turn), let's view this as the outside wheel (right) will work mainly in a UPWARD direction (because of car roll),and the BUMP DAMPERS will take effect. At the same time the inside wheel (left) will work in DOWNWARD direction,the REBOUND DAMPER will take effect. Got the picture? We have to understand that if it looks simple at first sight, actually both DAMPERS will work in conjuncture on the same wheel, but the effects will be more pronounce on a given wheel depending if this wheel is INSIDE(UP) or OUTSIDE(DOWN). 2-PRIMARY PURPOSE: The balance of the car,will be affect by the REBOUND DAMPERS (rapid change of direction:S chicane and when entering/exiting a corner). If you find your car overeacting when you execute a rapid transition of direction,you should lower the REBOUND DAMPER setting.On the contrary, if you find your car "Slugish",then compensate by increasing the REBOUND DAMPER. In the same manner OVERSTEERING is cured the same way as SPRING setting: try to lower REAR first,increase FRONT in second. UNDERSTEER is cured again as SPRING setting:decrease FRONT first,then try to raise REAR DAMPERS setting. NOTE: while your adjusting these setting,make small change at once, then see what it's doing in a given corner / S chicane.Try to feel the car:If you feel that it's overeacting in a rapid changeover of direction , is it oversteering or understeering? Is it possible that it's not even over/understeering but the DAMPERS setting are too HIGH? The same question could be asked for a "slugish car". These changes of setting should be performed on SLOW SPEED corners and HIGH SPEED corners. Try to view the track as multiple portion. Where do i have a "hard time" on a particular portion of the track,then adjust your REBOUND DAMPERS, see the improvement. Is this modification decrease speed at other parts? Can i find a "trade-off" which gives me a better overall track time? Do the same in slow corner NOW let's go back to our initial problem :(hitting the cerbstone,and then out of control) 1- Remember BUMP DAMPER purpose, while hitting the cerbstone, the OUTSIDE wheel will go upward, the bump damper will compensate the effect,at the same time (almost) the REBOUND DAMPER (on THE SAME WHEEL) will bring back the wheel to ground. The other wheel will work primarly in REBOUND MOTION(downward movement). If the adjustment of the BUMP DAMPER is too high compared to the REBOUND DAMPER, the outside wheel will suddenly loose TRACTION. The inside wheel will have an increased amount of load,the REBOUND DAMPER will try to compensate (if the load exceed a certain level --> you lose grip). "On the contrary of what i've wrote in previous article(experience makes me learning)" ADJUST THE BUMP DAMPER LOWER THAN REBOUND DAMPER on a given wheel. Why? Well if BUMP DAMPER setting is higher than the REBOUND DAMPER,then you don't give much chance to the wheel to regain the grip (overeact). ex #1:If your entering a corner,and the car slows down. When decreasing speed, the "LOAD" of the car will go on the FRONT TIRES, the highest "LOAD" will go to the inside wheel, the REBOUND DAMPER will work harder to cope with the increased load,if understeer occurr,decrease the REBOUND DAMPER level on that wheel. ex #2:If you enter a corner while in acceleration. The "LOAD" of the car will shift at the BACK.The INSIDE REAR WHEEL will have the greater "LOAD", therefore if oversteering occurr,decrease REBOUND DAMPER level at that wheel. (REMEMBER; view the track as multiple portion) IMPORTANT NOTE: If too much PACKERS is in use,the effects of BUMP and REBOUND DAMPER will have a lesser effect.At the extreme (excessive use of packers),there will be no effect from DAMPERS.(REMEMBER THE CERBSTONE?). Try to set-up your car for each wheel (left&right and front&rear) to maximize every portion of the track. ex: This way you can gain traction in a slow corner (left turn) then high speed (right turn),then a nice fast chicane, and so on... *********************************************************************** I'll give you one of my setting for Estoril. My lap are easily in low 1m21's and when i'm in shape low 1m20's, i do believe with further fine tuning i can go 1m19's.The reason why i chose Estoril is: I find this track difficult to setup since there's numerous different corner approach and personally find it chalenging to sweep thru the uphill slow S without loosing the back. FRONT WING:14 deg REAR WING:9 deg GEAR RATIO:1st:25 2nd:33 3rd:41 4th:48 5th:55 6th:60 FRONT ANTI-ROLL BAR:1500 lbs/in REAR ANTI-ROLL BAR:50 lbs/in BRAKE BALANCE: FRONT:36,125 REAR:63,875 FRONT LEFT FRONT RIGHT packers:3mm 2mm fast bump:2 2 fast rebound:3 3 slow bump:8 7 fast rebound:17 16 springs:1400 lbs/in 1400 lbs/in ride heights:26.5mm 28mm REAR LEFT REAR RIGHT packers:16mm 19mm fast bump:2 3 fast rebound:3 5 slow bump:5 6 slow rebound:11 12 springs:900 lbs/in 1100 lbs/in ride heights:47.0mm 50.5mm TOP SPEED REACHED:305 KPH PLANKs WEAR does not exceed .1mm LOCK to LOCK WHEEL:12 deg no driving help USING WHEEL/PEDAL ********************************************************************** Thanks for reading this article,hope i will receive input,(i accept constructive critics),please reply via newsgroup.My next article will be on ANTI-ROLL BAR and SPRINGS. HAVE FUN, Eric _________________________________________________________________________________ To those who still ask,if 2/3rd of REBOUND compared to BUMP,it's definitly a typing error (or the author was sleeping). FRONT DAMPERS: Start with REBOUND # 2 times the BUMP # REAR DAMPERS :same thing. Recently i've been running consistently in the 1m23's at Silverstone for Qualifying and my setup for SLOW DAMPERS are as followed: LEFT FRONT RIGHT FRONT SLOW BUMP: 11 11 SLOW REBOUND: 20 20 LEFT REAR RIGHT REAR SLOW BUMP: 9 9 SLOW REBOUND: 16 16 These numbers are not absolute, as you can see it's close of being 2 time, depending of the rest of the setup,these setting could be changed easily to your needs. Personally for "medium speed" track, i never use more of 4 deg differential between FRONT/REAR WING, This makes my car very comfortable and controllable. Hope it will be of help to some... Eric Cote. Editors remarks: Email address to Eric, if you have any questions is as follows: ericcote@magi.com or better post your question on the newsgroup: rec.autos.simulators /#27 Prince R&R Racing Team.