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Interview with GLORIA BRAME
An interview with Gloria Brame on July 15, 2000,
at the Sanctuary of the Dark Angel
in Atlanta, Georgia, from questions sent in.
Dungeon Chat is held Wednesday Evenings 9-11 EST in the Dungeon @ Fantassia's Palace.
All are welcome with the understanding that we all have the right to disagree without being disagreeable.
Note: Interview & comments edited for content & clarity without altering original intent.
~Cyberotica-Chrysalis~: First of all I want to mention two people . . . *weg* that made this ALL possible.
Gloria Brame for one . . . a Class Act and generous with her time . . and then *wink* gentleminx . . . for the laborious job of transcribing the tape!
I had corresponded on a couple occassions w/ Ms Brame and when I heard she was going to be doing a presentation at the Sanctuary . . I emailed her and asked if she might be willing to do and interview for Dungeon Chat here in the palace ~ she graciously consented
gentleminx: Gloria is incredibly neat. Extremely knowledgeable, an engaging speaker, and a great sense of humor. A winning combination!
ketaye{MMR}: How did she become so knowledgeable? Where does it all stem from?
~Cyberotica-Chrysalis~: One of the things she told us was that her doctorate makes her one of few sexologists in SM! *S*
gentleminx: She is a writer, as well as a researcher. She just finished her doctoral studies and now has a Doctorate in Human Sexuality with a focus in S&M. She says she interviews people. She also has been involved in BDSM for i think she said about 14-15 years.
ketaye{MMR}: So basically she learned it all through school and traditional research?
~Cyberotica-Chrysalis~: (If a visual is what you want to set this in . . we arrived at the Sanctuary of the Dark Angel and waited a bit for Gloria (good think cause while I did have the note pad, camera etc . . the questions were left behind on my desk!) ~ shudders at that thought ~ waiting in the foyer . . . gentleminx and I reconstructed most of the questions.
After Gloria arrived . . . and she accepted the yellow roses that I brought . . . we went into softly lit room off the dungeon proper . . . fire place and took our places on a couple of divans and commenced with the questions.)
~ The Interview Begins ~ |
~Cyberotica-Chrysalis~: Just off the cuff, before I get into the questions that I've got with me, is there any one thing that you would like everyone embarking on the leather lifestyle to know?
Gloria: Yes. This lifestyle is about the pursuit of personal happiness. When you find yourself unhappy, suffering, deeply confused, bewildered, not understanding what your Master/Mistress is asking of you, not being able to make relationships work, then the problem is probably not you, but the relationship.
As people start out in the lifestyle, I think that many of them who find they are with the wrong person or not having a positive experience, tend to reach the wrong conclusion. They tend to think they are naïve, don't really know what S&M is really about, or what it is to be a slave. For example, I've had so many people write, mainly women, but also submissive men, and say an unsuccessful M/s relationship is all his or her fault. They are not good enough slaves or submissives because Master/Mistress asked "xyz" of them. Usually it turns out that "xyz" was absurd or that the Master/Mistress really didn't really grasp the concept of consent entirely and how important it is for both partners in a S&M union to feel equally fulfilled and equally satisfied. That's the general principle.
~CC~: I think that's something that doesn't get touched on often.
Gloria: I agree, it really doesn't. Also, there is a huge and significant period of adjustment for someone just beginning to explore submission. When you do get into this lifestyle, the first thing you will find out is it already has organization to it. There are already protocols and rules and regulations and etiquette and different things that are expected of people, things that people who are experienced all seem to know and people who are inexperienced are completely overwhelmed or baffled by. And I think that this is a legitimate period of adjustment for most people.
Submissives have to start seeing things in new and different ways. Everything has to be reinterpreted. A submissive's sense of what's fair, for example, may have to undergo some major adjustments. What's fair in a S&M, power-based relationship and what's fair in other types of relationships are two different things. For the most part, a D/s relationship shouldn't be causing you more significant crises than any kind of other kind of relationship would be causing you. A submissive may have a whole lot more questions though. In my opinion, people should feel buoyant in a D/s relationship. I would like to see more buoyancy.
~CC~: That would be nice. Sometimes it's so serious it's a heart attack. It's more of a labor than it a joy.
Gloria: We also tend to hear more from people who are having problems, such as the people who are running into dangerous partners for example, because obviously they are the ones in crisis.
~CC~: There also are a lot of people who are not public.
Gloria: I think the majority of us are not in public.
~CC~: I think the internet has brought more awareness of the lifestyle out there, whether for better or for worse.
Gloria: I personally, despite the bad problems that have arisen, think the internet is definitely for the good. I came out, and went public, in '86. I actually got online though in '83.
~CC~: I've been online for about that long as well.
Gloria: I started going out to clubs in '86 and it was awfully difficult. People like us who had mainstream professions and so on, you didn't find many of us at the clubs.
~CC~: It was really too dangerous.
Gloria: People were just too paranoid. The fear was that with any kind of exposure that you were into this, you were going to lose your job or you were going to lose your children. And, a lot of people feel that way even today.
~CC~: And, in some cases, it still does happen that way.
Gloria: It does happen that way.
(The tape recorder is kicked by those passing through - temporary technical difficulty - definitely a non-consensual kick to the tape recorder)
Gloria: So, I think the internet is definitely for the better. The internet gives you opportunities to sit and talk to people that you probably have more in common with than just your sexuality. I would say going back awhile, for the most part, that was all it was about, talking about sex. It was so hard to find people because so few people came out. Now, I think far more people take the risk and feel more empowered to explore their own sexuality.
~CC~: One of our past BRC discussions has been on training etc. And of course there's the Old School and Old Guard and Classic training and all those kinds of things which I think will add a little bit more to formality and....
Gloria: There never really was any organized training. The idea that there was an "Old Guard Way," a particular way, a particular path, a particular set of rules which people 20 or 30 years ago all knew, is complete nonsense. It never existed. It's been romanticized in recent years.
There always has been pretty much what you see now. Small groups which form according to a particular fetish or interest. Or sometimes you find a group of people living in the same area that have formed a leather club or leather family who have developed their own etiquette. You find this on the internet too. But, there's never been any kind of indoctrination program or anything like that.
As a heterosexual coming out in the '80s, I can tell you we never heard of any of this until the '90s. Prior to the '90s, in the more unified gay and the lesbian communities, that's where the leather club and the leather traditions were formed. And, there wasn’t all that much inter-play between the different communities until the '90s, when all the communities started getting much more aggressively pansexual.
~CC~: I'm thinking of one of the leaders of the local groups in Atlanta who says she was trained classic European....
Gloria: Bullshit.
~CC~: Okay.
Gloria: There is no such thing.
~CC~: What about the households who keep different levels of discipline and training?
Gloria: What you see in those instances, may be a leather family who has its own set of rules or perhaps a local group that has developed its own rules.
You know, I had somebody write me some weeks ago looking for information on formal German training. Her Master claims He had formal German training. There's no one way to do S&M training. That’s absurd. Go rent some videos.
~CC~: Speaking of, do you have any S&M videos that you would recommend?
Gloria: No, they all really suck. I have yet to see one that I think was really that great. There are lots of good ones. It really depends on what you are looking for. Are you looking to get off? If you are looking to get off, there are a ton of them out there that you can watch. But, there's no really great SM movie yet that to my mind captures the reality of S&M, that real sense of pleasure and pain.
~CC~: As a Domme....
Gloria: As a Domme....
Oh, I was going to give you my "as a Domme" speech on the "i've been trained in the xyz stuff".
When someone comes to me and says, "I was trained by Mistress So and So", my attitude is "Shit, that means I have to re-educate you if I were to bother taking you on". You know, someone who trains you to please them is great if you are going to stay with them and please them. That doesn’t mean however that that training is going to apply to your next dominant. A dominant should be free to make his or her own rules and have his or her own requirements. Some of us like body service and some of us don’t. Some of us like work service and some of us don’t. Some of us want a groveling at all times submissive meek thing, and some of us like a loud, feisty pushy partner who might socially be a lot more extroverted than we are.
~CC~: So what about all the training schools and training camps?.
Gloria: I think they're fine. I think they are very educational. I think they can be erotic for the people who go to them. I think the camps and schools are a very interesting form of S&M entertainment. I'm all for them.
You know, training is not a bad thing. When somebody says, "I was trained by So and So", I don't think it is a bad thing. But, it doesn’t necessarily mean anything in terms of that submissive's ability to please me.
On the other hand, it's a great thing to go out there and learn how to please different dominants. It's a great thing to learn about being submissive and to learn what works for other people. It's a great thing to try out different roles and to try to put yourself in different head spaces. It's all great as long as you are not trying to change your whole life around. It's also great as long as you do not think you have the "mystery key" that makes you the best submissive to everyone in the world. The success of a D/s relationship is always still going to come down to the individuals involved.
~CC~: In your opinion can a Dom/me enjoy both sides of the whip and still be a Dom/me?
Gloria: Sure. Why not! You know, people can do any damn thing they please.
Gloria Brame Interview ~ Continued ~ Page 2 ~
Mirror site: http://www.thebrc.net/
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