archives of the CONLANG mailing list ------------------------------------ >From white@elf.dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 1 21:12:00 1994 Subject: Speedwords Date: Sat, 1 Jan 1994 21:12:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Finnis Speedwords: E bel, i r us c mu, i pu.. A couple of things. You mention that nouns don't inflect when preceded by an adjective of quantity, but you don't mention how the plural is formed otherwise. Appending an 's'? Also, I can't see any means of emphasis in there - i.e. no "very". Does one just use "mu" instead? ============================================================================= Jim Finnis | "Lpiq an lpiq asaqc, as upqca si enq" white@elf.dircon.co.uk | ...!uunet!pipex!dircon!elf!white ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- '"I am that merry wanderer of the night"? I am that giggling-dangerous- totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life-and-limb, more like it." ============================================================================= ______________________________________________________________________ >From 71174.2735@compuserve.com Sat Jan 1 23:37:41 1994 Date: 02 Jan 94 04:37:41 EST From: Rick Harrison <71174.2735@compuserve.com> Subject: Speedwords 2: Plurals can be indicated by lack of the singular article _u_ 3: or by adding the suffix -z. The idea of "very much" (to a 4: high degree) can be expressed by the augmentative/intensive/ 5: expansive suffix -e. 6: 7: Does anyone have information on the pronunciation of 8: Speedwords? How to pronounce words such as "J", "K", "&c", 9: and "x" is less than obvious. You can tell it's getting late, this wretched line editor is completely out of my control. -RH ______________________________________________________________________ >From elf!white@felix.dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 2 20:47:23 1994 Subject: Re: Speedwords Date: Sun, 2 Jan 1994 20:47:23 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jim Finnis" > > 2: Plurals can be indicated by lack of the singular article _u_ > 3: or by adding the suffix -z. The idea of "very much" (to a > 4: high degree) can be expressed by the augmentative/intensive/ > 5: expansive suffix -e. > 6: > 7: Does anyone have information on the pronunciation of > 8: Speedwords? How to pronounce words such as "J", "K", "&c", > 9: and "x" is less than obvious. > > You can tell it's getting late, this wretched line editor is > completely out of my control. -RH > Been there, done that, bought the damn T-shirt... :-) I'm not sure speedwords is intended to be pronounced because of the very lack of such a pronunciation guide, and the emphasis on textual rather than acoustic data compression. It is, it seems to me, primarily a language for shorthand dictation. In fact, after reading your notes, I played around with it and expanded the bandwidth considerably by adding cases and verb moods/tenses using reserved punctuation marks... although it's hardly a dictation language after this, more a shorthand note-keeping language, which is what I intend to use it for. example: I should have gone to your place with the books at the end of the year J {$go >ep 'v l+bu$ l@ed l'an Do you want my notes on this? ============================================================================= Jim Finnis | "Lpiq an lpiq asaqc, as upqca si enq" white@elf.dircon.co.uk | ...!uunet!pipex!dircon!elf!white ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- '"I am that merry wanderer of the night"? I am that giggling-dangerous- totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life-and-limb, more like it." ============================================================================= ______________________________________________________________________ >From pnh@world.std.com Tue Jan 4 06:41:41 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 11:41:41 -0500 From: pnh@world.std.com (Peter Harbo) Message-Id: <199401041641.AA24157@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Speedwords Cc: pnh@world.std.com It is obvious from reading these messages about Speedwords that Hogben was very influenced by Dutton in creating Interglossa (including some borrowing such as domi -> Interglossa postfix -do and camera -> -ca). The extreme agglutinate character of the vocabulary reminded me of Volapuek to a certain extent... Rick, thanks so much for making this info available. How are you proceeding, are you planning to scan the texts, or create abstracts of the information and post them? Also, could we obtain photocopies of the materials you are working from? --- Peter Harbo | pnh@world.std.com ______________________________________________________________________ >From elf!white@felix.dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 4 19:00:14 1994 Message-Id: <199401042223.AA18788@felix.dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Speedwords (rapmotz) To: conlang@diku.dk Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 19:00:14 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jim Finnis" X-Date: Today is Prickle-Prickle, day 4 in the season of Chaos, 3160. Rick writes: > > "Jim Finnis" white@elf.dircon.co.uk writes: > > Do you want my notes on this? > > Yes. BTW, the notes that I posted were very sketchy and preliminary. > Gimme some time to get something more complete ready to post before > you start memorizing the vocabulary or doing anything equally > drastic. Here's some material that I've recently added to my notes... OK, I've chopped them a bit to make them agree with the new stuff you posted, more or less. The more case-based paradigm of the resulting language takes a while to get used to, but I've been using these modifications in my own shorthand (basically vowel-omission based; nothing special) for a while now. ------------------------------- Speedword Adaptations- I've adapted the language to be considerably more complex, with a different grammar to English utilising punctuation marks as case markers, etc. This language will be useful to me for keeping notes (especially in limited length fields) and might come in useful as an on-line conversational language, much like Hakspek in the '80s hacker community. Anyway, here are the rough changes: Verbs ===== Past and future tenses indicated by { and } verb prefixes respectively, with the perfect tense formed with the verb "e" (to be). examples I went (imperfect) J {go I will go (future) J }go I have gone (perfect) J {e go I had gone (pluperfect) J {e {go Imperative isn't marked at all, just use the infinitive. Do what you want fa z v vo The Conditional (would/could) is represented with a ? prefix. Examples: I would have gone with you, but... J ?{go +v, b... I could do that! J ?fa! "Ought/Should" (I forget the proper term) is indicated with a $ prefix ($ for $hould!): And I should have known! & j ${sa! Verbs are negated by use of the -x or -o suffix, as below. I should not have done that J ${fax Passive voice can be indicated with -d. Nouns ===== Plural indicated by a -z suffix (as in the original). The singular article is omitted (if Welsh doesn't need it, then I don't :-) adjectives to follow nouns, to allow easier use of... cases marked by punctuation _prefixes_ ' : genitive (apostrophe used as genitive marker in English) (of, about) (you can also the the original's '-suffix) > : dative (for or to) < : ablative (from, out of, made by) @ : locative (at or in); + : associative (with, or using) - : disassociative (without) * : terminative (up to, until, before) : : prolative (via, by way of) This renders several words redundant. An example: I will go to your place with the books at the end of the year. I will-go to-place of-you with-the-books at-the-end of-the-year J }go >ep 'v l+buz l@ed l'an Of course, you could say "J }go >ep From hrick@world.std.com Wed Jan 5 01:33:55 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 06:33:55 -0500 From: hrick@world.std.com (Richard K Harrison) Message-Id: <199401051133.AA04338@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Speedwords pnh@world.std.com (Peter Harbo) writes: > It is obvious from reading these messages about Speedwords that > Hogben was very influenced by Dutton in creating Interglossa > (including some borrowing such as domi -> Interglossa postfix -do > and camera -> -ca). Well, hard to say who influenced whom. Interglossa was published in 1943. It's not clear to me when Speedwords first went to press; the Teach Yourself book was first published in 1951, yet Dulichenko claims Speedwords got press in 1943, although Dulichenko's bibliographic citations are undated... go figure. In any event, there's always the possibility of two conlangers reaching the same conclusion independently. Many of the 3-letter words in Speedwords are identical to words in my own defunct project, Vorlin -- bel = beauty, ber = carry, cen = hundred, etc. I had never heard of Speedwords when I started on Vorlin. > are you planning to scan the texts, or create abstracts of the > information and post them? Also, could we obtain photocopies of > the materials you are working from? I'm abstracting the information into an article which I will post here and publish in Journal of Planned Languages. (This results in a public domain file that can be distributed freely.) -- Rick Harrison hrick@world.std.com, etc ______________________________________________________________________ >From jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk Wed Jan 5 12:43:21 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 12:43:21 GMT Message-Id: <10541.9401051243@s5.sys.uea.ac.uk> Received: from [139.222.4.119] (jrk.sys.uea.ac.uk) by s5.sys.uea.ac.uk; Wed, 5 Jan 94 12:43:22 GMT To: conlang@diku.dk From: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) Subject: Re: Speedwords On a whim, I started typing in the Speedwords dictionary. Below is an example of the format I decided on. The hyphens are only there for the convenience of computer programs, they're normally written as single words. I've got up to the letter e so far, the remainder will happen as and when the fit comes upon me to process a few more pages. As for pronunciation, I remember reading some brief remarks somewhere, but I can't remember where, or find it in TYDS or the dictionary. All I know is that there was a standard pronunciation for the whole language. I few details remain in my mind. The prefix u-, indicating present participle, was pronounced by appending "ing". One of the suffixes was pronounced "ish". Ampersand was pronounced "and". Unwieldy consonant clusters could be broken up with "uh". For those who have the Speedwords materials, a question I haven't found an answer to: where does the "st" element of "artryst" (architect) and "ekst" (pastor) come from? It looks like an undocumented suffix (derived from English "-ist"), meaning "person who does". I would have expected the "-r" suffix (person). Note that "salesman" is "acor", not "acost", so a distinction seems to be being made. & and &-e etcetera a at,to a-c-u thereto a-o away ab about,concerning,re,regarding ab-e concern(n.) ab-i infer,relate ac buy,purchase ac-o sale,sell ac-o-e wholesale ac-o-p market ac-o-r salesman,vendor ac-o-t retail ac-r customer ad add,addition ad-e sum ad-i also,besides,further,moreover,plus,too ad-l extra,supplement ad-o deduct,subtract ad-o-l discount ad-op-o auxiliary ad-pa bonus ad-s accrue,accumulate -- ____ Richard Kennaway __\_ / School of Information Systems jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk \ X/ University of East Anglia \/ Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K. ______________________________________________________________________ >From hrick@world.std.com Wed Jan 5 18:24:57 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 23:24:57 -0500 From: hrick@world.std.com (Richard K Harrison) Message-Id: <199401060424.AA07163@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Speedwords suffixes Richard Kennaway inquires: > For those who have the Speedwords materials, a question I haven't > found an answer to: where does the "st" element of "artryst" (architect) > and "ekst" (pastor) come from? >From the speedword _ist_? (Dictionary page 20) > It looks like an undocumented suffix Dutton says there are 20 suffixes, and I think I have found his explanations of most of them, but there also seem to be some undocumented ones: -st, as you mention, and -t (diminutive?). Perhaps you will discover more as you comb through the vocabulary. Dutton's suffixes are quite vague and his use of them is very idiomatic and unpredictable, in my opinion. Never in a million years would I refer to a school as _ryu_ or to winter as _pea_. --- Rick Harrison hrick@world.std.com ______________________________________________________________________ >From C.J.Fine@bradford.ac.uk Fri Jan 7 15:30:29 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 15:30:29 GMT Message-Id: <18759.199401071530@discovery.brad.ac.uk> Received: from Colin Fine's Macintosh (colin_fine.comp.brad.ac.uk) by discovery.brad.ac.uk; Fri, 7 Jan 1994 15:30:29 GMT From: Colin Fine To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Re: Ptideep and Speedwords I experienced a remarkable deva vu when I read the following in Rick's posting: +++++++++> "The very-high-frequency words tabulated by Professor Horn are expressed in Dutton Speedwords by single alphabetic letters standing alone. The next highest in his order of frequency are alloted two-letter speedwords, and so on." <++++++++ Many years ago (I would estimate close to 30) I saw part of a satirical television play about a super-efficient language called Ptideep. The satire was about organisational control - this thing was introduced into a company in the name of efficiency, but the boss wasn't allowed to go on a course to learn it because the application had to be in it, or something. (To tell the truth I was a bit young for the satire - maybe 11? Also I was young enough to be overruled when somebody wanted to watch something else, so I don't know what happened in the end). But the bit I have always remembered is that the more common a word was the shorter: the shortest defined word was a two-letter word meaning 'productivity' - there was a one-letter word, but it was unassigned, in case somebody should discover a word with a higher incidence than 'productivity'. The longest word in the language was the word for 'wombat', which had 319 letters. Had the writer of the play come across Speedwords, or is this independent creation? Colin Fine ______________________________________________________________________ >From LEAVITT@Waisman.Wisc.Edu Fri Jan 7 05:27:20 1994 Date: Fri, 07 Jan 1994 10:27:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Lewis Leavitt Subject: Re: Ptideep and Speedwords To: conlang@diku.dk Message-Id: <01H7EC13OHS2B8KT3H@Waisman.Wisc.EDU> the name of the language was ptydepe the play was called the memorandum and the author: slawomir mrozek ______________________________________________________________________ >From jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk Fri Jan 7 17:51:09 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 17:51:09 GMT Message-Id: <17409.9401071751@s5.sys.uea.ac.uk> Received: from [139.222.4.119] (jrk.sys.uea.ac.uk) by s5.sys.uea.ac.uk; Fri, 7 Jan 94 17:51:09 GMT To: conlang@diku.dk From: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) Subject: Re: Ptydepe and Speedwords >the name of the language was ptydepe >the play was called the memorandum >and the author: slawomir mrozek Vaclav Havel, actually. It's available in English translation, in a volume which also includes a play by Mrozek, which may be the source of the error. From the on-line library catalogue: Author: Hay, Julius Mrozek, Slawomir Havel, Vaclav, 1936- Uniform title: Das pferd, English Tango, English Vyrozumeni, English Title: Three East European plays; [introduced by Martin Esslin] The horse; translated by Peter Hay Tango; translated by Nicholas Bethell and Tom Stoppard The memorandum; translated by Vera Blackwell Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1970 Series title: Penguin plays Notes: Contents: The horse/Julius Hay. - Tango/Slawomir Mrozek. - The memorandum/vaclav Havel Subjects: Drama--1901-2000--20th century--Anthologies The sample of Ptydepe which begins the play looks just like what Speedwords would look like if Dutton were Polish. -- ____ Richard Kennaway __\_ / School of Information Systems jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk \ X/ University of East Anglia \/ Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K. ______________________________________________________________________ >From hrick@world.std.com Tue Jan 11 18:24:55 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 23:24:55 -0500 From: hrick@world.std.com (Richard K Harrison) Message-Id: <199401120424.AA18250@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: World Speedwords Textbook Teach Yourself Dutton Speedwords focuses mainly on using Speedwords stenographically, to encode English text. Dutton hints that more info about the grammar and pronunciation of the auxiliary language version of Speedwords can be found in his _World Speedwords Text-book_. Perhaps we should begin searching for said book. Has anyone here seen this book? I'll be doing some searches in on-line library catalogs; I encourage others to do the same. It's got to be out there somewhere. BTW, Dutton's full name was Reginald John Garfield Dutton. --- Rick Harrison hrick@world.std.com ______________________________________________________________________ >From KNAPPEN@VKPMZD.kph.Uni-Mainz.DE Wed Jan 12 16:55:00 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:55 +0200 From: KNAPPEN@VKPMZD.kph.Uni-Mainz.DE Subject: klingon-language-faq To: conlang@diku.dk Message-Id: <01H7LKV2GMVK0003E8@VzdmzA.ZDV.Uni-Mainz.DE> In article <1994Jan11.144808.6314@nynexst.com>, baruch@nynexst.com (Robert Baruch) writes: :Archive-name: klingon-language-faq :Last-modified: Tue Jan 11 09:43:03 EST 1994 :Frequency: monthly (more frequently when unstabilized by additions) : : Informational Posting on the Klingon Language : : alt.startrek.klingon : :This document attempts to store information on resources for the :Klingon Language. Any additions/corrections may be e-mailed :to baruch@nynexst.com (Robert Baruch). : :All prices mentioned herein are as up-to-date as possible. All :trademarks are the trademarks of their respective legal entities. All :copyrights are copyright their respective legal entities. : :jabbI'IDvam DamughlaHchugh vIchel : :Qapla' : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :Contents / Dochmeyvam ngaS Dochvam : :1. So you want to speak Klingon. : vaj tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' DaneH : :2. The Klingon Dictionary. : tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom : :3. Klingon Language tapes. : tlhIngan Hol qawHaq : :4. The Klingon Language Institute. : tlhIngan Hol yejHaD : :5. The Klingon Language Postal Course. : tlhIngan Hol navHIjghach SoQ : :6. Other Klingon Language Institute sponsored projects. : tlhIngan Hol yejHaD numlu'ta'bogh jInmolmey pIm : :7. Klingon Language mailing lists. : tlhIngan Hol HablI'mey : :8. The Klingon writing system. : pIqaD : :9. Klingon language translation programs : tlhIngan Hol mughwI'mey : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :1. So you want to speak Klingon. : vaj tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' DaneH : : All those neat harsh-sounding words, saliva flying everywhere, :and no words for "please" or "thank you". You knew you just :*had* to learn this language, if only to weird out your friends. : : You need to get a hold of some serious resources. This document :will tell you all about those resources. Plan on spending some :money. And getting a large supply of napkins. : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :2. The Klingon Dictionary. : tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom : : This is the first reference any student of the Klingon Language :should purchase. Half of it is a Klingon-English / English-Klingon :dictionary containing approximately 1850 words. The other half :is an explanation of Klingon grammar. : : Make sure you get the 1992 version. This version contains an :addendum. : : Purchasing information follows: : : Title: The Klingon Dictionary : Author: Marc Okrand : Publisher: Pocket Books / Simon & Schuster Inc. : Year of Publication: 1992 : ISBN: 0-671-74559-X : Price: US $10 : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :3. Klingon Language tapes. : tlhIngan Hol qawHaq : : Yes, S&S realized the financial potential of all those :weird Trekkies. Instead of saying, "Get a life!" they said, "Get :a tape!" And so we now have two fine cassette tapes, "Conversational :Klingon" and "Power Klingon". : : "Conversational Klingon" is a humorous, extremely condensed form :of The Klingon Dictionary. Nevertheless, given that you get to actually :hear Marc Okrand, the inventor of the Klingon language, get a sore :throat over his Klingon consonants, and given that Michael Dorn, who plays :Worf on Star Trek: The Next Generation, narrates, this is one tape :not to be missed. : : "Power Klingon" is the successor to "Conversational Klingon". :While CK taught the basics of the language, "Power Klingon" moves :ahead to provide you with rich details of Klingon cultural events :and rituals. My favorite part was the one about mating rituals -- :Hey! Slow down! It'll still be there when you get there! : : Purchasing information follows: : : Title: Conversational Klingon : Author: Marc Okrand : Publisher: Simon & Schuster Inc. : Year of Publication: 1992 : Tape Nr: 79739-5 : Price: US $12 : : Title: Power Klingon : Author: Marc Okrand and Barry Levine : Publisher: Simon & Schuster Inc. : Year of Publication: 1993 : Tape Nr: 87975-8 : Price: US $12 : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :4. The Klingon Language Institute : tlhIngan Hol yejHaD : : Rather than describing the KLI myself, I'll let this excerpt from :the introductory letter of the KLI do the job: : : Now in its second year of operation, the Klingon Language : Institute continues its mission of bringing together individuals : interested in the study of Klingon linguistics and culture, and : providing a forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas. Our : membership is diverse, including Star Trek's fans with curiosity : and questions about Klingon language, RP gamers wishing to lend : some authenticity to a Klingon character, as well as students and : professionals in the fields of linguistics, philology, computer : science, and psychology who see the Klingon language as a useful : metaphor in the classroom or simply wish to mix vocation with : avocation. Though based in the USA, the Institute is actually an : international endeavor, presently reaching thirteen countries on : six continents. : : Now doesn't your heart speed up when you read that? The KLI's director :is Lawrence M. Schoen, PhD. The KLI publishes the Journal of the Klingon :Language Institute, HolQeD. It is sent out four times per year. Various :other things, such as sponsored projects, are available through the KLI, :and are mentioned elsewhere in this document. : : Purchasing information follows: : : Membership: Klingon Language Institute : Director: Lawrence M. Schoen, PhD : Address: PO Box 634 : Flourtown, PA 19031-0634 : USA : Contact: angghal@aol.com : Price: US: $15 Canada: $18 Elsewhere: $21 : Institutional: US: $24 Canada: $27 Elsewhere: $30 : US funds only. All checks payable to : Dr. Lawrence M. Schoen, KLI. : Benefits: Subscription to HolQeD, annual KLI Directory, : KLI membership card : : Title: HolQeD [The Journal of the : Klingon Language Institute] : Publisher: The Klingon Language Institute : Editor: Lawrence M. Schoen, PhD : ISSN: 1061-2327 : Frequency: Four times per year : Price: Free w/membership to KLI. : $4 per copy : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :5. The Klingon Language Postal Course. : tlhIngan Hol navHIjghach SoQ : : The Klingon Language Institute is sponsoring an excellent free course :by mail. Here's the way it works. To begin, send a self-addressed :manilla envelope, big enough for 8-1/2" x 11" papers, stamped with enough :postage for a little over one oz. to David Barron, whose address is below. :You will get back Lesson One. Learn the lesson, and answer the questions :at the end. Send your answers, along with another SASE, back to Mr. :Barron. You will get back Lesson Two, along with your corrected answers :to Lesson One. The cycle continues until the lessons run out. There :are currently about ten lessons. : : This course presents much of the material of The Klingon Dictionary :in a more "bite-sized" form, allowing students to gradually increase :their knowledge of Klingon rather than giving it to them a la fire hose. : : Purchasing information follows: : : Title: Klingon Language Postal Course : Publisher: David Barron : Address: PO Box 37 : Eagle, ID 83616 : USA : Contact: barron57@aol.com : (208) 939-4287 Tue-Fri 9h-17h MST, Sat 10h-14h MST : Price: Free (except for postage) : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :6. Other Klingon Language Institute sponsored projects. : tlhIngan Hol yejHaD numlu'ta'bogh jInmolmey pIm : : The KLI currently has four sponsored projects other than the :Klingon Language Postal Course. They are the Klingon Writing :Project, the Extended Corpus Project, the Klingon Bible Translation :Project and the Klingon Shakespeare Restoration Project. : : The Klingon Writing Project accepts fiction, nonfiction, and peotry :written in Klingon. There is a proposed annual supplement for KLI :members, which presumably will contain the best works. : : The Extended Corpus Project is "an effort to compile a comprehensive :glossary of a Klingon names, terms, and phrases from the multitude of :canonical fiction published." : : The Klingon Bible Translation Project is a project to translate the Hebrew :and Christian Scriptures (AKA Old and New Testaments) into Klingon. : : The Klingon Shakespeare Restoration Project seeks to translate :Shakespearean prose from English into "the original Klingon". : : Information on these projects follows: : : Project: Klingon Writing Project : Coordinator: Lawrence M. Schoen, PhD : Address: PO Box 634 : Flourtown, PA 19031-0634 : USA : : Project: Extended Corpus Project : Coordinator: c/o David Sturn : Address: PO Box 2832 : Auburn, AL 36831-2832 : USA : : Project: Klingon Bible Translation Project : Coordinator: Kevin Wilson : Address: 409 Prospect Street, Box 330A : New Haven, CT 06511 : USA : : Project: Klingon Shakespeare Restoration Project : Coordinator: Sarah Ekstrom (joyleaf@vnet.net) : Address: 730 Lamar Ave. [ may change -- use e-mail ] : Charlotte, NC 28204 : USA : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :7. Klingon Language mailing lists. : tlhIngan Hol HablI'mey : : A Klingon Language mailing list is available for those with access :to Internet mail. Send e-mail with Subject: subscribe to : : tlhIngan-Hol-request@klingon.east.sun.com : : The FAQ for the mailing list will be mailed to you upon subscription. :Information relating to translation is present in that FAQ. : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :8. The Klingon writing system. : pIqaD : : There have been several Klingon writing systems published, but :there is really only one which is correct. Basically, there are :three types of writing systems -- the Mandel set, the Paramount set, :and everything else. : : The Mandel set is reputed to be the first Klingon writing system. :It is in one-to-one correspondence to the English alphabet, which :makes it unsuitable for writing in Klingon. It is solely used for :artistic appeal. This set should not be used. : : The Paramount set is the correct Klingon writing system. It is in :one-to-one correspondence with the Klingon phoneme set. As such, :it can be used for writing in Klingon. The KLI supports the use :of this set. Displays in Star Trek movies and ST:TNG which use this :set don't really say anything in Klingon -- the letters are used :for artistic appeal. : : Everything else is basically a sorry attempt to fit the English :alphabet to Klingon. They never work, and should not be used. : : A Postscript font on disk of pIqaD -- both the Mandel set :and the Paramount set -- is available through the KLI for US $13. :Mac/Type I and Mac/TrueType are also available. : :------------------------------------------------------------------- : :9. Klingon language translation programs : tlhIngan Hol mughwI'mey : : No, really. They're very difficult to write, especially for us :amateur linguists ;-) There are several translation programs being :worked on. I am working on a C++/yacc E-to-K version in my spare time. :Too bad I have had so little spare time recently... : : If you would like to be listed as a translation program developer :here, please e-mail me. Try to use the format for developers below, :but don't restrict yourself to it. If you have something which :doesn't fit easily into the format then break out of the format to :tell me about it. : : Developer information follows: : : Name: Robert Baruch (baruch@nyenxst.com) : Direction: English to Klingon : OS: UNIX : Program Name: parse (so far) : Summary: Uses C++ and yacc to parse English sentences. Can : handle ambiguous translations by outputting multiple : translations for each interpretation. : Devel. Stat: Under development : Archive: N/A : Most impressive sentence translated: : "my definite friends can not see your supposed big blue serpents" : gharghmeyqoqraj tIn SuD leghlaHbe' juppu'na'wIj : gharghmeyqoqlIj tIn SuD leghlaHbe' juppu'na'wIj : : : Name: Rick Klement (rick@infoserv.com) : Direction: Klingon to English : OS: UNIX (but pretty much generic C) : Program Name: mugh (of course) : Summary: Uses C and a data file with the words (by type) in it. : I started in lex but the compiles were getting too long. : It understands verb prefixes and all verb and noun : suffixes in order, and tries for the best match. : It makes no attempt to produce good English, but just does : the lookups for you. : Devel. Stat: Complete; adding more words. : Archive: none : Most impressive sentence translated: N/A : ______________________________________________________________________ >From chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu Sat Jan 15 01:52:25 1994 Received: from violet.Berkeley.EDU by odin.diku.dk with SMTP id AA03952 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Sat, 15 Jan 1994 18:52:27 +0100 Received: from localhost by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.4/1.33r) id JAA00909; Sat, 15 Jan 1994 09:52:25 -0800 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 09:52:25 -0800 From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Message-Id: <199401151752.JAA00909@violet.berkeley.edu> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Morneau address, etc. Does anyone have a currently active address for Rick Morneau? Both ram@netcom.com and mnu@inel.gov bounced recently. I am interested in obtaining a copy of his long- promised essay on lexical semantics. Has it ever been posted to conlang? Are you reading this, Rick? BTW, on the news recently was an interview with a young student of the Klingon language. While I didn't hear all of the feature, evidently he has translated the story of Jonah and the Whale into Klingon and may do the rest of the Old Testament. Missionary societies, the Summer School of Linguistics, the Bible Society, and the like should rejoice. Does anyone know of translations of the Bible into other conlangs? I've heard only of an Esperanto version. --John ______________________________________________________________________ >From donh@netcom.com Sat Jan 15 03:05:47 1994 Message-Id: <199401151905.LAA28082@mail.netcom.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Cc: Don Harlow Subject: Re: Morneau address, etc. <199401151752.JAA00909@violet.berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 11:05:47 -0800 From: Don Harlow > BTW, on the news recently was an interview with a young > student of the Klingon language. While I didn't hear all of the > feature, evidently he has translated the story of Jonah and the > Whale into Klingon and may do the rest of the Old Testament. > Missionary societies, the Summer School of Linguistics, the > Bible Society, and the like should rejoice. > Only if they are planning on sending missionaries to Klinzhai. > Does anyone know of translations of the Bible into other > conlangs? I've heard only of an Esperanto version. > About a dozen books of the Bible were available in Interlingua in 1990, but not the entire Bible -- and the work of translating, which was being done by one person, seemed to be going quite slowly. I'm not sure what the current situation is. Given who the inventor of Volapuk was, I would have supposed that the Bible would have appeared in that language, but in Stojan I found no mention of it, though I did find a translation of Thomas a Kempis. Maybe I just overlooked it. Stojan also did not list a bible in his list of translated literature in Ido, but perhaps one appeared later. In addition to the regular Esperanto edition of the bible (published by the British and Foreign Bible Society in Edinburgh or some such place), there are new versions of the four Gospels available in Esperanto, in translation by Gerrit Berveling. Like the Interlingua products, they are being sold as four separate books. (Incidentally, the two names quoted in the Chicago Tribune -- I think it was -- article about the Klingon translation of the bible both belong to members of the Esperanto League for North America. Mark? You there?) Don Harlow donh@netcom.com Esperanto League for N.A. elna@netcom.com (800) 828-5944 Mi ellitig^as c^e l'tagig^o | I rise from bed at dawn Kaj c^e la sunsubir' ripozas; | And go to rest at sundown; Teron mi plugas por min nutri, | I plow the earth to feed myself, Por trinki mi mem puton fosas; | To drink, I dig my own well; Kion mi devas danki al la suvereno! | For what have I to thank the sovereign! -- Early (2400 B.C.) Libertarian poem... ______________________________________________________________________ >From shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 12:31:08 1994 From: shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu (Mark E. Shoulson) Received: from localhost (shoulson@localhost) by startide.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.4/8.6.4.788743) id RAA07582; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 17:31:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 17:31:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199401172231.RAA07582@startide.ctr.columbia.edu> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Morneau address, etc. >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 19:19:47 +0100 >Comment: Issues related to constructed languages >From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) >BTW, on the news recently was an interview with a young >student of the Klingon language. While I didn't hear all of the >feature, evidently he has translated the story of Jonah and the >Whale into Klingon and may do the rest of the Old Testament. That would be me. I translated Jonah into Klingon, yes, and was recently on the New York WABC station being interviewed about it. It's a project someone started up (Kevin A. Wilson, to be precise) and it's been seeing a lot of coverage on the Klingon list. Glen Proechel (another Klingon bible-translator and director of last year's Klingon camp) apparently gave the story to the AP, and my name's been popping up everywhere since then. I hope I won't be expected to do the whole OT! :-) I have been officially made the Old Testament editor for the project, for whatever that's worth. As I said in the interview (one of the few lines they kept), when I heard about the project, I wasn't sure how doable it was (and still have my doubts). But I decided that if it's to happen, I'd rather it happen with me than without me. If anything comes of the project and I'm not involved, it will bother me. Moreover, if anything comes of the project and I'm not involved, I think the project will suffer: honestly speaking, I doubt there is another person around who speaks both Klingon and Hebrew as well as I do. So I decided to jump in. >Missionary societies, the Summer School of Linguistics, the >Bible Society, and the like should rejoice. Missionary societies? That wouldn't be my idea... >Does anyone know of translations of the Bible into other >conlangs? I've heard only of an Esperanto version. I suspect there are a fair number of at least partial ones. People take you more seriously if you can translate the Bible (probably a major impetus in producing this one). >--John ~mark ______________________________________________________________________ >From dean@anubis.network.com Mon Jan 17 11:06:33 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 17:06:33 CST From: dean@anubis.network.com (Dean C. Gahlon) Message-Id: <9401172306.AA06769@anubis.network.com> Received: by orion.network.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20434; Mon, 17 Jan 94 17:06:31 CST To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Morneau address, etc. I don't believe that a Volapu:k translation of the complete Bible was ever published; _The Book Of A Thousand Tongues_ (a marvelous book listing all the Bible translations known to the American Bible Society with samples from each) claims that only certain books were translated into Volapu:k. (Since I collect foreign-language Bibles, I have this information on the tip of my mind.) Dean Gahlon dean@network.com ______________________________________________________________________ >From shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 12:29:07 1994 From: shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu (Mark E. Shoulson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 17:29:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199401182229.RAA10688@startide.ctr.columbia.edu> To: conlang@diku.dk Cc: iad@cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Forthcoming: Visible Speech in METAFONT Well, I've finally succeeded in making a METAFONT font that looks reasonable enough to distribute. I've recreated Alexander Melville Bell's phonetic alphabet, the Visible Speech, in a METAFONT file. I'm working on making am explanatory file for those who didn't get copies of the book from me, and I'll soon be uploading the package to wherever it is that METAFONT fonts are stored (there's a central place, ftp.shsu.edu, I think, that gets mirrorred all over the place). So METAFONT-users, take warning: another font you need to have is on the way. ~mark ______________________________________________________________________ >From jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk Wed Jan 19 10:47:36 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:47:36 GMT Message-Id: <2803.9401191047@s5.sys.uea.ac.uk> Received: from [139.222.4.119] (jrk.sys.uea.ac.uk) by s5.sys.uea.ac.uk; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:47:36 GMT To: conlang@diku.dk From: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) Subject: On-line Speedwords dictionary I now have the whole Speedwords dictionary transcribed. The file is about 50k, so rather than post it here, I've put it on ftp. Site ftp.sys.uea.ac.uk, directory pub/kennaway, file speedwords.dict. The A-D part includes some corrections since the version I posted. Here are some corrections to the list of radicals that Rick Harrison recently posted: >ft girl [TYDS only] Listed in the dictionary as a contraction of "fem-t". >pi may [TYDS only] In dictionary as non-primitive "p-i" >x if [TYDS only] "x", "xi", and "y" are in the dictionary, but out of order, between "w" and "we". >z as, then [dic], than [TYDS] "Than" is in the E-S half of the dictionary, but not the S-E half. -- ____ Richard Kennaway __\_ / School of Information Systems jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk \ X/ University of East Anglia \/ Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K. ______________________________________________________________________ >From jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk Wed Jan 19 10:52:10 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:52:10 GMT Message-Id: <2887.9401191052@s5.sys.uea.ac.uk> Received: from [139.222.4.119] (jrk.sys.uea.ac.uk) by s5.sys.uea.ac.uk; Wed, 19 Jan 94 10:52:11 GMT To: conlang@diku.dk From: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) Subject: Re: Speedwords-English dictionary, A-D Peter Harbo writes: >BTW, I am getting increasingly curious about the way the 'grammer' is presented >in TYDS (that is why I have been asking whether anyone was planning to make >photocopies of these books available). Did Dutton describe the grammar in a >connected way, or are his grammatical comments just sprinkled inbetween the >word lists, or is there a unified presentation, The latter. TYDS is directed mainly at the shorthand/notetaking market, so the grammatical tidbits are presented as note-taking conveniences ad hoc, rather than in any systematic way. The dictionary has one or two hints in its preface, but no more. I imagine that the World Speedwords book, which I haven't seen, might take a more systematic approach. -- ____ Richard Kennaway __\_ / School of Information Systems jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk \ X/ University of East Anglia \/ Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K. ______________________________________________________________________ >From ram@eskimo.com Tue Jan 18 19:39:38 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 03:39:38 -0800 From: ram@eskimo.com (Rick Morneau) Message-Id: <199401191139.AA05496@eskimo.com> To: conlang@diku.dk, ram@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Morneau address, etc. John Chalmers writes: > > Does anyone have a currently active address for Rick > Morneau? Both ram@netcom.com and mnu@inel.gov bounced > recently. I am interested in obtaining a copy of his long- > promised essay on lexical semantics. Has it ever been > posted to conlang? Are you reading this, Rick? > Yes. My current email address is "ram@eskimo.com". The essay is still under construction and growing steadily. It currently weighs in at about 179Kbytes (about 72 printed pages), and I expect it to be at least twice as large when finished. I will NOT post it to conlang (it's too big), but will let the list know when it's ready. Don't hold your breath - this is a fun project and I prefer to do it right rather than do it quickly. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, never mind. :-) Regards, Rick P.S. Don't you hate it when your name is in the subject line? *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* =* Rick Morneau ram@eskimo.com "Be kind to nature - =* *= Idaho Falls, Idaho, USA brake for dinosaurs." *= =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ______________________________________________________________________ >From lojbab@access.digex.net Wed Jan 19 07:24:26 1994 From: Logical Language Group Message-Id: <199401191724.AA04348@access2.digex.net> Subject: Re: Klingon (was: Morneau address, etc.) To: conlang@diku.dk Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:24:26 -0500 (EST) Mark Shoulson writes: > I suspect there are a fair number of at least partial ones. People take > you more seriously if you can translate the Bible (probably a major impetus > in producing this one). What about vocabulary? Are you producing compounds, borrowing from Hebrew, or what? Because Klingon is notionally a "snapshot of a real lg" rather than the typical conlang, its published vocabulary is small. -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ______________________________________________________________________ >From shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 08:32:50 1994 From: shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu (Mark E. Shoulson) Received: from localhost (shoulson@localhost) by startide.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.4/8.6.4.788743) id NAA14053; Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:32:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:32:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199401191832.NAA14053@startide.ctr.columbia.edu> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Klingon (was: Morneau address, etc.) >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 19:19:58 +0100 >From: Logical Language Group >Mark Shoulson writes: >> I suspect there are a fair number of at least partial ones. People take >> you more seriously if you can translate the Bible (probably a major impetus >> in producing this one). >What about vocabulary? Are you producing compounds, borrowing from Hebrew, >or what? Because Klingon is notionally a "snapshot of a real lg" rather than >the typical conlang, its published vocabulary is small. Well, we consider it bad to invent new roots; after all, readers with only the dictionary would be lost. We do some compounding (sanctioned by the language) and assorted circumlocutions, and occasional (reasonably transparent) idioms. You'd be surprised how big the vocabulary is, though. There is also some transliterating, for proper nouns and all, and possibly for some specific concrete nouns (jury's still out on that... should the gourd in Jonah be a "fruit tree" or a "qIqayon"? I'm not positive. Hypothetically speaking, if we were translating a Klin gon text into English, animal names would be transliterated, maybe we should do the same.) >-- >John Cowan sharing account for now > e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ~mark ______________________________________________________________________ >From hrick@world.std.com Thu Jan 20 00:08:37 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 05:08:37 -0500 From: hrick@world.std.com (Richard K Harrison) Message-Id: <199401201008.AA08295@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: overview of Speedwords (1 of 2) language profile: Speedwords by Rick Harrison Reginald J. G. Dutton created Speedwords, a unique project which can serve as either an international auxiliary language or a stenographic system which allows one to take notes very quickly. Unlike other "shorthand" writing systems, Speedwords uses only the familiar letters of the Roman alphabet, with no unique symbols. According to Dutton, "Because they are composed of ordinary alphabetic letters, speedwords can be typed on a typewriter as well as written by hand. Speedwords typists are therefore able to attain typing speeds never known before. Indeed, those with nimble fingers attain speeds up to 150 words per minute." In linguistics, there is a notion called Zipf's Law which states that frequently-used words tend to be shorter than seldom-used words. Dutton took this principle to its logical extreme in designing his project. As he explained in the introduction to Teach Yourself Dutton Speedwords: "The word-lists are logically and methodically built up from Professor Ernest Horn's remarkable analysis of the frequency of occurrence of all words. The Iowa University philologist and his staff examined and tabulated 15,000,000 running words of all classes of written and printed matter. The very-high-frequency words tabulated by Professor Horn are expressed in Dutton Speedwords by single alphabetic letters standing alone. The next highest in his order of frequency are alloted two-letter speedwords, and so on..." In addition to short words which can be written rapidly, Speedwords also boasts a relatively small vocabulary of basic concepts ("semantic primitives") which can be re-combined to express virtually any idea. "Only 493 one-, two-, or three-letter word-roots have to be memorised: all other ideas are expressed through the medium of adding single-letter suffixes, or forming short compounds." Dutton mentions that he studied the 1000 categories of Roget's original thesaurus and the 200+ radicals of which the Chinese characters are composed; these influences are evident in his selection of vocabulary items. So, it appears the vocabulary was designed with two objectives that were given nearly equal importance: to make the most common morphemes as brief as possible, and to cover all of semantic space with the fewest possible morphemes. The Speedwords vocabulary mainly consists of shortened a posteriori borrowings: _gu,_ meaning "good," is related to German _gut_ and English _good;_ _v,_ meaning "you," is from French _vous_ (and coincidentally resembles Esperanto _vi_); _sa,_ meaning "know," is from Spanish _saber._ Many of the 3-letter words are remarkably similar to words found in other projects like Lincos and Vorlin: bel = beautiful; fem = woman; lin = language; lud = game, play. Although publishers and the book-buying public apparently were more interested in Speedwords' stenographic uses, Dutton wanted to focus on its potential as a neutral international language: "The author wishes to emphasize the fact that Speedwords has, above all, an international value, inasmuch as it constitutes the simplest, easiest and most adequate medium for the interchange of ideas between the 54 United Nations, whose closer collaboration is at present hampered by linguistic differences. By making themselves conversant with Speedwords, users of this book will not only add to their personal equipment and to their efficiency in both private and commercial affairs, but will also rank as pioneers in this method of advancing international understanding... "Many students of Dutton Speedwords have testified that they have found the study of this new system to be a fascinating pastime, and in no sense an arduous task. The dual ability to take shorthand notes in ordinary writing, and later -- if desired -- to enter into an international correspondence without having to learn a foreign language, opens up quite exciting possibilities." Although Dutton has been dead for several decades and his books have long been out-of-print, Speedwords lives on. Several people have reported to me that they use (slightly modified versions of) Speedwords in taking notes, in writing their diaries and so forth. ============== vocabulary ============== There are no synonyms among the root-words. "One idea, one speedword." Although it would seem that the radicals are already short enough, frequent Speedwords can be abbreviated: ms = mus, pl = ple, js = jus, fn = fin. "Kom is abbreviated to capital K when a business organisation is to be expressed." Below is a list of all the Speedwords root-words, plus important contractions such as F and O. Some words have two forms, for example qid can be abbreviated to qd, so this item is entered as q(i)d. & and a to, toward, at ab about, concerning, regarding ac purchase, buy ad add, addition af business, trade {French affaires} ag field ai also [contraction of adi] ak attack al all, whole alk alcohol am love amu amuse an year ang angle, corner ap open {aperture} aq water ar friend are area, region, district arg argue, discuss arm arm art art as ascend, rise at expect, anticipate au hear aut authority, official av fly ax ask, inquire az always, ever [contraction of al oz] aze forever, perpetual azo never b but ba back, rear, behind bar obstruct, check be before, prior, previous bed layer, stratum, sheet bel beauty, beautiful ber carry, bear bi life, live {biology} bib drink bid command, order, tell bil account, bill bit piece, bit ble grain, corn blu blue bo tree bod body, trunk bol ballgame bor border, edge bra brave, bravery, courage, courageous bri shine bru brown bu book by by c this, these {French ce} ca room, chamber cav hollow ce receive {receive} cel heaven, celestial realm cen hundred cer certain, positive, sure ci decide, decision cir circle, ring co collect(-ion) con cone cu that [demonstrative adjective] d of, from {French de} D day #... (e.g. D1 = Sunday, D2 = Monday) da give, donate {Latin dare} de day deb debt, owe def define, distinguish dek right-hand side dem nation, people des desire, want, wish di say {diction, French dire} dig finger dik fat, thick dio God dip deep dir direction dis disc do live, dwell, reside dok document don pardon, excuse dor sleep dos 2 dra act, drama, a play du continue, keep on dy since {French depuis} e am, are, (to) be, is {Latin est} eb even {German eben} ed end, finish ef efficient, competent, capable eg equal eis ice ek church el electric(-ity) ele element em emotion en attention {attention} eng narrow ent enter ep place, position, location, to put er person ern earnest, serious es estimate, assess est appreciate, esteem et little, small {booklet, islet} f for F Madam [contraction of Femu] fa deed, act, to do, fare {Latin facere} fab fabric, material fas easy fat fat fe glad, happy {felicity} fem woman fet celebration, festival feu fire, burn, combustion fi filament, thread fid faithful, loyal fil son f(i)n find fir firm fis fish fix fixed, secure, tight fla inflammation (of a body part) fle flesh, meat flo flower, bloom flu flow, current fo front, in front of fol leaf fon origin(al), source for form, shape fot photograph fra brother fru fruit fu few ful full, fill fun 5 fur provide, furnish, supply fy render, -ify, cause, reason g them, they ga complete, completely {German ganz} gar keep, retain gas gas ge together, join gel yellow gen birth, yield, generate gla smooth gm gram (unit of weight) go go, goes gom rubber gra gratitude, to thank, thanks! gre degree, grade, stage gro grow gu good, well gus flavor, taste h has, have [also used as aux. verb, e.g. G h go = they have gone] ha possess, own hab common, habit(ual), ordinary, usual han hand har hair haz chance, luck, hazard he heat, hot hem half hi conceal, hide ho height, high, tall {German hoch} hon honest, sincere hor hour, o'clock hu having hum humble hy had i in, within ib possible {possible} id same {identical} if inform, tell ig general (shared by all) ik property, quality il particular, special ilu influence im idea, imagine, suppose in between, among {Latin inter} ind indicate int interest ip self, selves {Latin ipse} ir here is complement isk insect ist professional it implement, instrument, tool ite journey, travel, voyage iv associated with [indefinite preposition] iz herewith [contraction of ir ze] j I, me {French je, Scand. jeg} ja soon je every, each, per {German jeder} jet cast, throw jm everything [contraction of je om] jr everyone [contraction of je er] js [contraction of jus] ju judge jun young, youth jur law, legal jus fair, just, right jut jut, project(-ion), prominence k that [conjunction; akin to Esperanto ke] K company, firm ka head kal alkaloid kan sing, song ke credit, due kem chemical ken acknowledge, admit ki move, motion {kinetic} kil thousand kin kindred, relation kla class, kind, sort ko come {German kommen} kok cook kol neck kom company, accompany kon accord, agree kos world {Greek kosmos} kot cotton kre believe, belief kru cross ku enclose, include, contain kub cube kup guilt, culpable, fault kur curve kut cut ky eat l the {French le} L month #... la large, big las allow, permit, let {German lassen} lat side le letter (correspondence) leg leg lek lecture, oratory len gentle, mild les damage, harm, injure li liquid lib free, liberate, release lim bound(ary), limit lin language lo long, length lob praise log logic, sense lon lend, loan lot allot, allocate, assign, deal lt litre (unit of volume) lu month lud game, play luf air lum light, illuminate lut contest, a match ly long-and-thin m with {German mit, Scand. med} M Mr. ma make, produce, construct mar marry mat matter, material, concrete [adj] mau mouth me more, greater, increase mek machine mel sweetness mem memory, remember men mind, mental mer mother mes measure met metal mi midday, noon mid middle, medial mik microbe mil million min mineral mir wonder(-ful) miu minute (time unit) mol soft mot word mr meter (unit of length) Ms Ms. mu much, very m(u)s must, have to muz music my most {German meist} n no, not na of course, nature nam name, call nar story, narrat(iv)e, tale nat native nav ship {naval} ne take [in the sense of E-o preni, G nehmen] {German nehmen} ner nerve nes need, require, necessary nm nothing [contraction of n om] no look (at), notice, observe nob celebrated, honor, repute nor north nov new nr nobody [contraction of n er] nu now {Dutch and Scand. nu} num number, count, several nur food ny near(-ly), almost, approximately nyn 9 o on O sir [contraction of onu] ob get, acquire, obtain od manner, method, mode, way odo odor, smell of offer og eye oil oil ok right, correct, accurate ol receptacle, vessel om thing, article, object on man op against, contrary {oppose} or or ord order, arrange(ment) org organ orn ornament, decorate os bone ost east ot other otto 8 ov over, above oz occur, occasion, happen p can, be able to, have the power or potential to... pa pay(-ment) pad pad, cushion pap paper par part, portion pas ago, past pat paste pe period, a while ped foot pel clear, plain pen hang per father pes heavy, weight pin point pi(r) soul, spirit pit mercy, pity pla flat, horizontal, level pl(e) please, pleasure pli fold po after(-wards), post- poe poem pol polite por important, matter pos post(age) pot earthenware, pot(tery) pov poor, poverty pre prepare pri price, cost pro promise < continued > ______________________________________________________________________ >From hrick@world.std.com Thu Jan 20 00:11:18 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 05:11:18 -0500 From: hrick@world.std.com (Richard K Harrison) Message-Id: <199401201011.AA08444@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: overview of Speedwords (2 of 2) pru prove pu think, thought pul powder pur clean q do ...? [in questions; akin to Esperanto c^u] qa how {Latin quam} qar 4 qe when qi who(m) {French qui} q(i)d what {Latin quid} qo where {Latin quo} qu that [relative pronoun], which... qy why r will [future tense flag] ra work, labor rad root rag anger, rage rap quick(-ly), rapid(-ly), fast re again, repeat reg control, govern, direct rek direct, straight rel religion ren meet-ing, rendezvous rep reptile rev revolve, rotate rex king, monarch ri write {write} rit rhythm ro list ron round, rotund, around ru remain, stay, rest, stop rub friction, rub rud red ruk crease, wrinkle rup break ry building, establishment, -ery {bakery, library} s he, him sa know, knowledge saf safe(ty), secure sak sacred, holy sal jump, leap, spring san health sau sauce, condiment se week {French semaine} sed sit sek follow, sequence {consecutive} sem seed sen feel, sentiment sep 7 ser look (for), search (for), seek ses 6 sev divide, division {sever} sh her, she sha sharp sho exhibit, show shu shoot sig meaning, significance, signify sil silk sip simple sis sister sit position, situation sla hit, strike, a blow so so, such sok social, society sol only, sole, single, alone son sound spa space, volume spe speak, speech, talk spi breath(e) sq square sta stand ste compass, extend, range, scope sti condition, stipulation, terms sto stone stu learm, study su better, improve sub substance sud sudden suk succeed, success sup exceed, excess, surplus sur surface sut maintain, support, sustain sy science t it ta late, tardy tab table tat condition, state te time teg cover ten hold, grasp ter earth, land tes test, experiment tin color tir draw, pull to amount, quantity top top tra transfer, transport tri 3 tru through try attempt, try, endeavour tu touch tub pipe, tube tuf tough tur turn ty 10 u a, an, one {French un} ub favorable, well ud many, numerous ue being ui musical instrument uk transact, undertake ul some, any um something [contraction of ul om] un negative uo another [contraction of u ot] up up ur return, revert urb town, urban urg drive, urge us use, utilize ut item, unit uz once v you {French vous} va war vag wander, aimless val value, worth van vanish, disappear ve vehicle, car veg vegetable ven blow, wind ver green ves garment, to dress via road, route vib vibrate, shake vig hard, strong, vigor(ous) vik instead, substitute vis force, power viz face vo willing vok cry, voice vot choose, pick, select vu see, sight, view vy advice, advise w us, we we purpose, intend, aim wo wool wy white x if y was, were ye yes yr would z as, than, compared to za dear ze send {Dutch zenden} zi because zo animal zu condition zy disease Apparently the first versions of Speedwords were published in 1943 or earlier; Hogben reportedly mentions the project in his book on Interglossa. In the autumn of 1951, Dutton made some changes to his vocabulary. He added the words con, ele, sub, and zy, and removed the following items, replacing them with the new items shown in the second column: deleted item replacement ---- ---- grav ern (earnest) <--- 4-letter words shortened iflu ilu (influence) krel rel (religion) ling lin (language) mato pi(r) (spirit) neur ner (nerve) sers fin (find) stat tat (condition) end ed (end) <--- 3-letter radicals shortened bla wy (white) dax ne (take) hid hi (hide) hot he (hot) kap ka (head) lab ra (work) lan wo (wool) man on (man) mul ud (many) sin mo (without) sel aco (sell) <--- radicals replaced by compounds lig bos (wood) mon pam (money) nig wyx (black) on eri (one [impersonal pronoun]) onk peri (uncle) ra zee (radio) sim idi (similar) kav cav (hollow) <--- respellings and replacements fin fun (five) ja ye (yes) ka za (dear) kar qar (4) kum kom (company) mo ki (motion) mus muz (music) na ja (soon) ne na ("nature-ally") pt par (part) ym we (intend) ================= pronunciation ================= Only one of Dutton's books, the World Speedwords Text-book (which I have not been able to obtain), gives complete rules for the pronunciation of Speedwords. His other books only mention that all Speedwords are pronounceable. From hints given in Teach Yourself Dutton Speedwords, we know this much: The Speedwords letter _c_ is always pronounced like the English digraph "ch" in "church." When a consonant is followed by _y,_ the y is pronounced /ai/; the speedword _ny_ sounds like the English word `nigh.' Q is pronounced /kw/. =========== grammar =========== ** general A typical speedword word may be used as a modifier, verb or noun: hex = cold [noun or adjective], lob = praise [verb or noun]. Dutton claimed that it is not necessary to use particles or affixes to convert a word from one part-of-speech to another: "`Beauty' and `beautiful' are both conveyed by the one Speedword _bel,_ and `necessity' and `necessary' by the one Speedword _nes._ ...In this connection it is worthy of note that the Chinese have not, in thousands of years, found it necessary to differentiate between `beauty,' `beautiful' and `beautifully' ...Word-order, both in Chinese and Speedwords, suffices to indicate the purpose of every word-unit." However, if we carefully examine Dutton's word lists, we _do_ find instances of Speedwords using affixes to distinguish between nouns and modifiers. Compounding is used: ca + dor (room + sleep) = bedroom; ry + bu (building/establishment + book) = library. Note that these compounds are in headword-modifier sequence, the opposite of what we find in English, German, Chinese and Esperanto compounds. Many of Dutton's example compounds are not exactly obvious in their meaning, and some of them make us wonder if his elevator went all the way to the top: ky + luf (eat + air) allegedly means "picnic," soninum (letter/spell + number) supposedly means "algebra," and regnob (govern + honour(ed)) is translated as "senate." ** verbs The word _r_ indicates future tense, the prefix _y-_ indicates past tense: j sa = I know, j ysa = I knew, j r sa = I will know. When used as a free-standing word, _y_ is the past tense of _e_: sh y fe = she was happy. The word "to" is omitted from infinitive verb expressions; thus _ce_ = "receive" or "to receive." The continuous or progressive verb is expressed by copula + stem, e.g. S e pu = he is thinking; be ze t = before sending it. The English verb "do" is not translated into Speedwords when it is superfluous: Qa v di t? = how (do) you say it? J n sa = I (do) not know. Existential sentences do not contain the word `there': E 3 le ir f v = (There) are three letters here for you. ** pronouns Pronouns are not inflected to indicate case: w = "we" or "us." The possessive forms of pronouns are created by suffixing -i: ji = my, si = his, shi = her(s). ** nouns Nouns do not inflect to indicate plurality when preceded by an adjective of quantity: 4 le = "four letters," al mer = "all mothers." Plurals when necessary are formed by adding -z: liz = liquids. The absence of the singular article _u_ can also indicate plurality. Possession is indicated by an apostrophe: wi K' buz = our company's books. =========== affixes =========== A system of approximately 20 affixes expands the usefulness of the limited vocabulary of root-words. Unfortunately, the definitions of most of these affixes are vague, and their uses are very unpredictable and idiomatic. Even if you memorize all the root-words and affixes, it is unlikely that you would be able to guess the meanings which Dutton has assigned to various combinations of radicals and affixes. The suffix -a indicates an unfavorable connotation to the root-word: bixy = kill, bixya = murder; en = attention, ena = worry; pro = promise, proa = threaten. The suffix -b indicates possibility: kreb = credible, ozb = perhaps. The suffix -c denotes a collective entity: ci = decide, cic = committee; on = man, onc = community. Some of Dutton's uses of -c have less-than- obvious meanings: fi = filament/thread, fic = brush; gusu = tasty, gusuc = salad. The suffix -d indicates passive voice: rid = written. J r ku l pam m l le = I will enclose the money with the letter; L pam r e kud m l le = the money will be enclosed with the letter. The suffix -e is expansive/ intensive/ augmentative; ny = near, nye = next; ja = soon, jae = immediately. "When the -e suffix is also added to any qualitative word it has the force of `very,' as mue -- very much, gue -- very good, loe -- very long..." In practice, Dutton's uses of this suffix are somewhat idiomatic and unpredictable: aq = water, aqe = steam; ko = come, koe = forthcoming. -f/-y is causative: bix = death, bixy = kill; ta = late, taf = delay. The suffix -g indicates a "general" relationship: pe = period, peg = season. In practice, Dutton's uses of this affix are quite idiomatic and unpredictable. Using the vocabulary list above, see if you can guess the meanings of _bleg, dog, ming_ and _ping._ (Answers at the end of this section.) The suffix -k indicates the presence of a quality: bi = life, bik = vital; am = love, amk = affectionate. Some of Dutton's uses of this affix don't seem to fit in with his definition of it: ku = contain/include, kuk = capacity; sta = stand, stak = standard. The suffix -l indicates "an idea or object which has a special association with the Speedword to which it is joined." Ax = ask, axl = a request; if = to inform, ifl = a report; pa = to pay, pal = a cheque. The suffix -m indicates an object or article: pam = money, afm = commodity. The prefix me- forms comparatives: mela = larger. The prefix my- forms superlatives: myla = largest. The suffix -n indicates negation (equivalent to English un-, non-, -less). Often it is impossible to predict whether Dutton will use -n or -o: garn = dispose, garo = expend; habn = strange, habo = rare; jusn = unjust, okn = incorrect, juso / oko = wrong. A suffix of opposites is one of the most common affixes. Words ending in consonants add -o, words ending in vowels add -x. Examples: ir = here, iro = there; up = up, upo = down; ov = over, ovo = under; he = hot, hex = cold. (Exception: "As `ax' is already used for `ask' the contrary of `a' is expressed by `ao.'") The suffix -p indicates the place for something: au = hear, aup = auditorium. In a few cases Dutton uses -p when one might expect him to use ry: kyp (instead of ryky) = restaurant. The suffix -r indicates a person or agent-noun: stur = student, junr = child, nyr = neighbor. The suffix -s is defined as "compliment," i.e. something which has a complimentary or reciprocal relationship to the root-word. ze = send, zes = bring; ri = write, ris = read. Some of Dutton's uses of this suffix are idiomatic and unpredictable: fil = son, fils = daughter; fe = happy, fes = enjoy. The suffix -st indicates a professional person: artryst = architect; just = judge; sanst = doctor. In some cases Dutton uses -r when one might expect him to use -st: afinr = broker, berr = porter, rybur = librarian. He tells us that _rist_ means `clerk' and _rir_ means `writer.' The suffix -t is diminutive: bo = tree, bot = a plant; nav = ship, navt = boat. Dutton's use of this affix is sometimes unpredictable: even if you know that _ge_ means "together/connect" and _gro_ means "to grow," you probably would not guess that _get_ means "to attach" and _grot_ means "a bud." The suffix -u indicates something generally favorable: haz = chance, hazu = fortunate; rap = quick, rapu = prompt; to = amount, tou = sufficient(ly). The prefix u- creates the present (active) participle: ubi = living. Often one cannot predict whether Dutton will use u- or -k to express a given meaning. The suffix -v/-i indicates "association" (a vague relationship): au = hear, auv = listen; ri = write, riv = print; arm = arm, armi = sleeve. -v also indicates ordinal numbers: 2v = 2nd, 3v = 3rd. The prefix y- indicates past tense: ybi = lived. But the past tense of "have" is written _hy,_ not _yh._ In general y- need only be used once in a sentence, and can be omitted if past time is otherwise indicated. It's also worth noting that Speedwords roots and affixes are not self-segregating. The word _nob_ might be no + b ("noticeable") or the root _nob;_ the word _kony_ might be ko + ny, or ko + n + y; _por_ might mean "successor" or "important"; and words such as _itollis_ and _evue,_ which combine morphological ambiguity with semantically ambiguous affixes, are difficult to analyse. If Dutton's examples are any example, so to speak, it seems unlikely that any given Speedwords user could assemble new compounds of roots and affixes in a way that other users could spontaneously duplicate or unambiguously analyze. For instance, we might expect the Speedword for "house" to be _dop_ or _rydo,_ but Dutton claims it is _ryg,_ and he asserts that _dop_ means "address." Likewise Dutton tells us that "bridge" is translated as _sutkru,_ not _krum_ or _krul_ as one might expect; Dutton asserts that _krul_ means "swastika"! The notion of "republic" is expressed by Dutton as _demrexn,_ "non-monarchy." He renders "unpaid" as _pan_ rather than _padn._ And he translates the English words "nevertheless, still, yet" as _mexn,_ a compound which literally means `not-opposite:of-more.' (Answers to the -g quiz: bleg = wheat, dog = hotel, ming = coal, ping = a pin.) It is my opinion that the basic vocabulary of Speedwords is a brilliant implementation of Zipf's law and lexical parsimony, but the system of affixes is woefully inadequate. Dutton has simply tried to stuff too many different meanings into each suffix and, as a result, many suffixes have no predictable meaning at all. Perhaps a Speedwords reform project is needed. 1/2 :-) ============ bibliography ============ (Teach Yourself) Dutton Speedwords Dutton, Reginald J. G. Teach Yourself Books/English Universities Press: 1951, 1971, 1973 [160 p.] Dutton Speedwords Dictionary Dutton, Reginald J. G. Dutton Rapid Writing Systems Ltd.: 1951 [64 p.] other items mentioned in the above works: World Speedwords Text-Book Companion to Text-Book Supplement to Text-Book Dictation Exercises on 1,000 most-used Words Thanks to the participants in the Conlang forum, especially Ron Hale-Evans and Richard Kennaway, for helping me to obtain information about Speedwords. (This article is in the public domain and may be freely redistributed.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Rick Harrison hrick@world.std.com ______________________________________________________________________ >From lojbab@access.digex.net Thu Jan 20 06:49:27 1994 From: Logical Language Group Message-Id: <199401201649.AA28597@access2.digex.net> Subject: Re: overview of Speedwords (2 of 2) To: conlang@diku.dk Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 11:49:27 -0500 (EST) Rick Harrison writes: > Compounding is used: ca + dor (room + sleep) = bedroom; ry + bu > (building/establishment + book) = library. Note that these compounds > are in headword-modifier sequence, the opposite of what we find in > English, German, Chinese and Esperanto compounds. Many of Dutton's > example compounds are not exactly obvious in their meaning, and some > of them make us wonder if his elevator went all the way to the top: > ky + luf (eat + air) allegedly means "picnic," soninum (letter/spell + > number) supposedly means "algebra," and regnob (govern + honour(ed)) > is translated as "senate." These seem pretty plausible to me. Inverting to match English order (AN), we get: picnic [open-]air eat[ing] algebra num[b]er[ical] letter[s] senate honoured govern[ors] remembering for the last that "senate", to Dutton, probably mostly meant the Roman Senate. > Likewise Dutton tells us that "bridge" is translated as _sutkru,_ not > _krum_ or _krul_ as one might expect; Dutton asserts that _krul_ > means "swastika"! Not so bizarre. Until its adoption by the Nazis, the fylfot was a common variant of the Greek (equal-armed) cross, often used during the persecutions of Christians as a disguised cross. > The notion of "republic" is expressed by Dutton as > _demrexn,_ "non-monarchy." Also historically quite sound. Despite the propaganda on the subject in American schools, to Machiavelli a "republic" was any government not ruled by a single person (legitimate monarch or tyrant), whether an oligarchy, a democracy, or what have you. If the U.K. abolished the monarchy, it would become a republic ipso facto, even with no other changes in government. > He renders "unpaid" as _pan_ rather than > _padn._ And he translates the English words "nevertheless, still, yet" > as _mexn,_ a compound which literally means `not-opposite:of-more.' Clearly an English calque: "opposite:of-more" is plainly "less" and so we have "non-less", close to "never-the-less". -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ______________________________________________________________________ >From hrick@world.std.com Thu Jan 20 20:22:27 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 01:22:27 -0500 From: hrick@world.std.com (Richard K Harrison) Message-Id: <199401210622.AA18629@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: Shum? In his introduction to the book Semantic Networks in Artificial Intelligence, Fritz Lehmann writes the following in a footnote: "In the 1960's, I saw a network language called `Shum' (in a Shum Foundation publication) created to express the fundamental ideas of the great eastern religions; since then I've never found any references to Shum." Mr Lehmann has written to me asking if I have any data on Shum. I have none. Anyone on this list have any leads? ______________________________________________________________________ >From chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu Thu Jan 20 23:27:17 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 07:27:17 -0800 From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Message-Id: <199401211527.HAA04214@violet.berkeley.edu> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: replies RE: Mark Shoulson: Mark: Congratulations, I wish I had seen the entire feature and interview. I must say your Klingon sounded very fluent. Do you have any idea how many fluent Klingon speakers there are and how many passive readers/listeners? I can appreciate how a thorough knowledge of Hebrew would help. I once found an Indonesian Bible in a used bookstore and gave it to some friends who play and teach Javanese Gamelan. I was impressed that one, whose hobby is biblical Hebrew, was able to compare the Indonesian to the Hebrew from memory as his wife read the translation aloud. I was just kidding about the missionaries. RE: Dean C. Gahlon: Dean: I have _The Book of a Thousand Tongues_ also, but alas, it is in Houston, so I couldn't consult it. My recollection was that the complete Bible was translated only into Esperanto. RE: Rick Morneau: Rick: I and, I suspect, others in conlang are waiting expectantly for your essay. Let us know when it's finished. --John ______________________________________________________________________ >From donh@netcom.com Sat Jan 22 17:03:57 1994 Message-Id: <199401230903.BAA04526@mail.netcom.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Cc: Don Harlow Subject: Inglix Speling Riform X-Accent-Convention: cx ux Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 01:03:57 -0800 From: Don Harlow Several weeks ago there was a discussion here of step-by-step English spelling reform and some of the (usually joking) suggestions that have been made to implement it. One of these, which I mentioned, was a short story called "Meihem in ce Klasrum" that appeared in one of the "Best of the Year" science-fiction anthologies in the late forties. The story (actually, pseudo-essay) was by Dolton Edwards, and this evening I discovered, to my surprise, that someone has posted it on the net. I was experimenting with the Lynx browser for the World-Wide Web, looking at all the Esperanto stuff there (including my own .plan file, which someone has made accessible!), when I discovered it. From where I am I reached it by going from the first page opened by Lynx to "by Subject" to "Education" to "Language and Linguistics"; it was near the bottom of the page, listed as "Shaw and Meihem." I don't know whether the posting is legal or not -- if Edwards renewed his copyright, it would still be under copyright protection, even under the old law -- but it is there. Don Harlow donh@netcom.com Esperanto League for N.A. elna@netcom.com (800) 828-5944 Mi ellitig^as c^e l'tagig^o | I rise from bed at dawn Kaj c^e la sunsubir' ripozas; | And go to rest at sundown; Teron mi plugas por min nutri, | I plow the earth to feed myself, Por trinki mi mem puton fosas; | To drink, I dig my own well; Kion mi devas danki al la suvereno! | For what have I to thank the sovereign! -- Early (2400 B.C.) Libertarian poem... ______________________________________________________________________ >From hrick@world.std.com Thu Jan 27 20:25:48 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 01:25:48 -0500 From: hrick@world.std.com (Richard K Harrison) Message-Id: <199401280625.AA12625@world.std.com> To: conlang@diku.dk Subject: belated replies I've been reading the archives of 1993 traffic from this list; I was disconnected during most of that year. So, here are a couple of incredibly late replies... On 13 July 1993, Richard Kennaway asked about the status of the MCD (multi-conlang dictionary). I still have all the files but haven't done anything with them in about a year. I was thinking maybe I should prune the vocabulary down from 2000 items to 1000 items and re-issue the call for volunteers to input vocabularies. Technically the project is now called ULD, Universal Language Dictionary. I have discovered that it would be possible to add languages like Chinese to the vocabulary, without waiting for Unicode to be implemented. The folks in the newsgroup alt.chinese.text have developed an ingenious scheme for transmitting Chinese characters thru 7-bit ascii channels. On 20 July 1993, Allan Bailey wrote: > Is it possible to create a language _without_ embedded cultural > assumptions/words/concepts? > I tried to imagine a language without the word for "chair"... There are plenty of people living in remote parts of the world who have never seen a chair. It's a safe bet that their languages don't have a word for "chair." Vorlin expresses "chair" as _sidmob,_ with _sid_ meaning "a seated position/ sitting" and _mob_ meaning "a piece of furniture." ______________________________________________________________________ >From ucleaar@ucl.ac.uk Fri Jan 28 18:58:20 1994 From: ucleaar Message-Id: <19517.9401281858@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> To: conlang@diku.dk X-Ungarbled_Sender: And Rosta Subject: Dutton Speedwords Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 18:58:20 +0000 Alan Butcher, a linguistics student at University College London has contacted me to ask for information on "Dutton's World Youth Speedwords". Unfortunately I have deleted the recent messages on this topic: would some enthusiast be willing to forward them to me? He has had access to: R J G Dutton (1943) _Dutton's World Youth Speedwords_ ____________ (1945) _Supplement to the Dutton World Speedwords Text-Book_ ____________ (1951) _Teach Yourself Dutton Speedwords_ but knows no other bibliographical sources, nor any enthusiasts. Alan has written a manual called _Dutton's World Youth Speedwords: The Next Generation_, the preface of which states that "it is with the hope of kindling a speech community that may breath[e] life into the words of this language that I write this handbook". The handbook consists of sections on: - general structure (1 page) - suffixes (6) - verbal elements (1) - constructions (1) - word paradigms (2) - pronunciation (1) plus a 'Dwys'-English lexicon of about 1400 entries and an English-Dwys lexicon of about 3000 entries. Alan doesn't use email so if you are interested, then snailmail him at: Department of Phonetics & Linguistics University College London Gower Street London WC1E 6BT Britain In the meantime I will pass on to him any information readers of this list might be kind enough to send me. Thanks, And Rosta From ucleaar@ucl.ac.uk Sun Jan 30 01:03:00 1994 From: ucleaar Message-Id: <65423.9401300103@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> To: conlang@diku.dk X-Ungarbled_Sender: And Rosta Subject: Dutton Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 01:03:00 +0000 Peter Harbo has kindly forwarded me the messages on Dutton's Speedwords. He also suggested that an ftp-able copy of Alan Butcher's handbook would be a good idea: I will propose this to Alan, who I am sure will be delighted to find a community of fellow enthusiasts. And Rosta