1999 - Reel.com Malcolm McDowell for My Life so Far

His Life So Far: Malcolm McDowell

By Pam Grady

Q: It's not often I get to talk to people who actually scare me, but…

MM: I scare you?

Q: Well, you impress me.

MM: I hope I don't scare you, Pam. I don't have a scary bone in my body.

Q: I've never actually spoken to a pop icon before.

MM: Oh, I'm a pop icon? You think I'm a pop icon?

Q: Definitely. After if..., O Lucky Man!, and A Clockwork Orange -- if you had died at 27 you would have been England's James Dean.

MM: Ah, that's right. Ah yes. There you go. Now I have to suffer the indignity of old age.

Q: But it's a handsome old age.

MM: I'll take it. I'm happy with it.

Q: Let's talk about the new film, My Life So Far. How did you get involved with this? What was it about the script that appealed to you?

MM: To be honest with you, it wasn't really so much the appeal of the script, although I liked it. It was the fact that Hugh Hudson (the director - Alex) is a great old friend of mine. And Hugh called me up and asked me if I would do it, really as a favor to him. I said, of course, I'd do it. If you can't work with your friends, who can you work with? So, I was very happy to do it. Then I heard who he'd cast in it. Colin Firth, who I'm a very big admirer of, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio - not bad! And Rosemary Harris, who I adore and had worked with before. Irene Jacob, who's a delight. Just to throw into the mix, a whole mob of lovely kids from Scotland and the lovely Kelly Macdonald who was in Trainspotting. So, that mix, that wonderful cast, and I met a lot of other wonderful people on that who became friends of mine. One of them was the continuity girl or the script girl, as they're called, called Libby Barr, who's a lovely Scot from Edinburgh. I got to know her very well. In fact, she worked on this film I'm just doing now called Gangster No. 1. I managed to get her on that. I was thrilled that Libby came with me to that. She's a very fine script person and she's also a friend of mine and I adore her. So, that was great. That was about it really. And the fact that it was David Puttnam (the producer - Alex), who've I've always admired and liked and I'd never worked with him, either. I thought it was about time I went back to England to work. I hadn't worked in England in a while. I really thought it was time to get back home and do a bit of work in the English way

Q: Does it feel like home when you go there? You've lived in America for almost 25 years.

MM: No. Honest to God, America feels like home. But I'll let you into another secret. It felt like home after about three months. So, I don't know what it is about America and me. I think there's been some kind of screw-up, because my philosophy is much more the American one than the English. Not to say that I don't love England. I do. But it's just different.

Q: In the press material for My Life So Far, there's a quote from you about how, in this movie, World War II is just around the corner and this is last call for a very privileged way of life. In the quote you sound almost nostalgic. If the Empire had lasted, do you think it would have changed your feelings toward England in any way?

MM: No, I was very much an anti-establishment figure. I'm not saying I believe the parts that I played in the early days. I certainly wasn't an anarchist or anything like that, but I certainly had a very - and still do - have a very rebellious nature in me. I tend to question and say, "Why?" The English don't like that. The English like conformity. The establishment in England is like a sponge and it will suck you in. As it probably does here, too. But it's more subtle here, I think. Not quite so - in England, it's very much that way. I don't think it has anything to do with America being a world power, the fact that I like it here. I like the mix of people. I like the fact that it doesn't matter where you come from, but they reward talent, not the color of the blood in your veins and what your father did and all that, which is really irrelevant and totally unimportant. But in England it's not. I find that stifling. It's very irritating, actually. They sort of reward mediocrity. I don't like that.

Q: To get back to the film. Your character, Uncle Morris, is constantly referred to as a hard-hearted businessman, yet he melts whenever he's in the presence of his fiancé and he clearly enjoys a warm relationship with his young nephew. Was that warmth in the script or is that something you brought to it?

MM: I think I brought a lot of that, because I just felt that when you play a character, there obviously has to be more than one side to him. Of course, he's rather an old Edwardian, really. Yes, he can't bear to see waste and he feels that his brother-in-law is completely frivolous and has probably utter contempt for him. Which is hard for him to hide. But, of course, he loves his mother, so it's all kind of all under the surface. Of course, he loves his fiancé and he loves the kids. They're Moira's kids - his sister's kids. And he loves children. I wanted to make him like a sort of favorite uncle that we've all had at some point in our lives or somebody in the family who's turned up every so often and is larger-than-life. And who sort of brings gifts and things, unusual things. And everybody loves that, you know, that kind of person. I wanted to get a feeling of that for the kids.

Q: What was it like working with those kids, particularly Robbie Norman, the little boy at the center of everything, because you share a number of scenes with him? Is it hard to work with such small children?

MM: No. they were so good. Of course, they'd been very well rehearsed by the coaches. They did a very good job with them. They had a wonderful casting director, called Patsy Pollack. She organized those kids brilliantly and made sure that they gave wonderful performances and took them through it many, many times. They were really wonderful. He has such an earnest innocence about him - Robbie. He's lovely. He's absolutely lovely. And little Daniel, too, his brother, but he's been cut out of it a bit. He had quite a mischievous streak. You never knew what he was gonna do, and so I'd always have to say, "I can't hear you. What did you say?" It made it real. Like it would be. I think they all were at ease with me. It was fun. It was a lot of fun doing it. You can't take the attitude, I think, with kids that...you have to be patient and just let it happen. Make them all feel part of it and important and then they come across beautifully.

Q: You've said before that costumes help you get into your characters. In the case of Uncle Morris, he has been described as flashy, but not necessarily tasteful. What did Morris' costumes say to you? Did they help you get into the character?

MM: Very much. Any period piece that you do, of course, you rely on the costume enormously to give you that sense of - I don't know - that sort of dignity and the bearing of the part, the way you move. It's so different with a beautiful costume on. There's one that I had, in fact, I've still got it. It's a lovely old Harris tweed. It was fabulous. Really beautiful. It's very important, that. I haven't done, actually, that many period films, but the ones I have done, I've always relied on the costume. Actually, I'm doing one, now, called The Visitors (Just Visiting - Alex), playing a wizard. The makeup, actually, more than the costume in that particular part - because I've got a bald pate with long, long white hair and a long white beard and a long white mustache, which actually feels like a lot of glue on my face, which it is, but it looks spectacular. You don't have to do a lot of acting, just a lot of believing.

Q: You've criticized the British film industry in the past, about how it sort of died in the 1970s. Do you think, perhaps, My Life So Far might in some small way help bring the industry back?

MM: I don't know. To be honest, with you, I really don't know. I think there is a renaissance in England right now. England is the center of Europe, if not the planet, at the moment. There's tremendous energy there right now. Rawness. A kind of - there's a lot of money around suddenly, because of - well, God knows why it is. It probably has something to do with Margaret Thatcher and her legacy is finally paying off. There's tremendous confidence over there, which is very unusual. There's a lot of people on the street - it's also been a nice summer. That's a rarity in itself. You get the sense that there's a tremendous amount of pent-up energy that's being let loose in London. I've read three terrific scripts that I thought were really fantastic, only one of which I was able to do, because of conflict of time. But I think there is a renaissance right now. There really is. I don't know whether they'll be able to afford to back the films there or what.... This was a Miramax film, which is, of course, an American company owned by Disney. You have to look to the Americans who have the foresight and the confidence to go out and put their money with their mouth is. That doesn't really do the English any good, in the long run. Of course, it gives us, the actors, employment and all the rest of it, but it doesn't do much for the British film industry. Because the profits don't go back to them.

Q: I remember reading a quote from you, saying you'd like to see the English make the money on English films.

MM: It would be nice. Listen, there's enough to go around. We're not trying to deprive anybody here. Also, I wouldn't want to take away that hand that feeds me, either. If they have the foresight to see it, then, hey, good luck to them. That's the capitalist way.

Q: Early in your career you worked with Lindsay Anderson on if... and O Lucky Man! and then Stanley Kubrick on A Clockwork Orange. You seem to have had special relationships with both men. Can you describe the differences between them and do you think you will ever find that type of special bond with a director, particularly the bond you shared with Lindsay Anderson, again?

MM: No, I don't think I'll ever find that again. Because I was like a completely bare canvas, if you like. I was a very young actor. I was plucked from the crowd by the great director. He taught me everything that I know, probably. Of course, it was really up to me what you decide to learn and what you decide to forget, but Lindsay Anderson was a great friend of mine. I dearly loved him as a friend. Of course, he was a brilliant director. But as a friend, I loved him. He was one of the most extraordinary people I have ever met. It was such a privilege to have known him. I'm so lucky that I got to do my first film with him. I would have accepted any film - a Hammer horror film. Anything. I was an actor, trying to break into films. And the luck - O Lucky Man! is so true in my case, because I met one of the greatest directors around at the time. And one of the greatest intellects. That was even more important, because his intellect and his loyalty were staggering. I'm not the only one that got the benefit of that. There were many people that he loved and who loved him. At his memorial, I was quite shocked at how many people came and really totally loved him. It was a great night to be remembered at the Royal Court Theatre.
Stanley, on the other hand, was a totally different kettle of fish. Stanley was more a satirist than a humanist, although I must say, now that's he's gone, too, that my remembrances of him are very fond. In its own way, I really had a wonderful time with him and created one of the most extraordinary parts that probably I will ever do on screen or on any other medium. It was an extraordinary experience - one of the things you only do once in a lifetime, that kind of part. That transcends everything, really. It was an amazing piece of writing by Anthony Burgess and that's sort of overlooked, too. Without Anthony Burgess, there would have been no Clockwork Orange, of course.

Q: Speaking of A Clockwork Orange: did you improvise the Singin' in the Rain sequence?

MM: Yes, I did.

Q: How did you come up with that? Why that particular song?

MM: Well, because Stanley asked me whether I could dance. I said, "Sure, I'll give it a go." I started to dance and started to kick and smack and started to sing "Singin' in the Rain". I needed some kind of, you know - Alex the droog was at his most euphoric doing those two occupations - beating and raping. Right up his alley. And, so, euphoria came to mind. And euphoria is Gene Kelly and Singin' in the Rain, swinging around that lamppost. And, basically that's why it just intuitively came out of my mouth like that. Of course, Stanley seized on it. It's the kind of thing you could never write in a script.

Q: if... and A Clockwork Orange, the two films most closely associated with you, both deal with violent youth. In the wake of recent school shootings, there's been constant carping by certain politicians and people in the media that it isn't guns that kill kids, but violent media, including movies. How do you respond to that?

MM: Well, I'll tell you this. I don't think either of those films can be blamed for Columbine.

Q: No movie could.

MM: No film could be blamed for that, no. Who knows what it is? Who knows what starts off this kind of violence? Maybe it's a whole slew of things. Maybe it's the whole picture. Maybe it's frustration about the American dream gone sour. I don't know what it is. It is the expectations of something that's never quite fulfilled. There's great anger and frustration around. There's a lot of that. The rest of the world is totally bemused about the lack of gun control in this country. Honestly, I'm right at the head of that, because I feel it's nonsensical to go and license your car and all the rest of it, but not to do that with a gun. You can have an AK-47, which is a killing machine. People want to claim the right to own one, saying it's the amendment right and all that, which is totally nonsensical and ludicrous. Look at how many kids are killed with guns accidentally in homes every year. It's staggering, the amount. I blame that - I blame the Congress for it. I blame the Senate. And I blame the NRA. If it takes a gunman to walk into the Congress and wipe out half of Congress, maybe they'll take notice. I don't know what you do. How many more of these tragedies do you want to go through? How many more times to do we have to go through it? And they're still saying, it's not the gun, it's the person. We have to hear that all the time. It's frustrating, I think. It happened in England -- in Scotland, actually, at a school. A lunatic went in and shot the kids when they were working in the gym. Literally the next month, they banned every single gun in England. Even Olympic marksmen were banned using guns. Although you still get guns, of course -- the criminal element will still get guns. Why make it so damned easy? I don't really want to get up on a soap box and all that, but every time your read about one of these things, your heart sinks again. It's frustrating not knowing what the hell to do. You could say, you know, films play a part in that, but -- and maybe they do. Maybe they do. But what are we supposed to do, as artists? Are we supposed to ignore the fact that we live in a very violent society? Are we not supposed to be mirroring what we're going through? Is it not social document, as well? I'm talking about the serious films, not the sort of cartoony ones.

Q: To get back to the films, O Lucky Man! was based on your own experiences as a coffee salesman. You wrote some of it. Do you think you might write again?

MM: Probably not. Although, I don't know. I have been asked to do my autobiography. If I did it, I'd write it myself. I don't want to do another script.

Q: What about directing?

MM: You know, there was one point, when I thought I may want to do it, but I don't really have a great desire to do it. I think unless you do, you shouldn't do it. I don't want to do it just for the sake of -- but I loved writing O Lucky Man!. I found it extremely trying and very difficult and extremely lonely. But it was a great experience to work with Lindsay on the script and David Sherwin. That whole process was quite amazing.... I'm sorry to have rattled on about the gun thing.

Q: No, no, that's fine. I was looking for a response.

MM: Well, if you press enough buttons, then you'll get it.

Q: Exactly. Can you describe your approach to comedy? I've read where you were surprised about the controversy over Clockwork Orange, because you just looked at it as a black comedy.

MM: Well, it is a black comedy, of course. It's also socially aware and makes social comment. Of course, the whole underlying theme is one of freedom to choose. That's what it's about. And it's brilliantly crafted by Anthony Burgess, because he makes the hero, or antihero, at the core of it all immoral. So, that's a dilemma. How do you really like, root for an immoral person? It's difficult. But, in fact, you kind of do.

Q: You can't quite help it actually.

MM: That's what I mean. And that's why I think the film was roundly attacked by the sort of liberal element. I can see why, because you come out, not helping yourself, and go, "My God, I've been tricked." You know. Sleight of hand.

Q: You did another film early in your career, a swashbuckler, Royal Flash...

MM: Yeah. I enjoyed that.

Q: How was that? Had you had previous fencing training?

MM: No. Good God, no. But you know when they say to an actor, "Can you ride?" You always say, yes, of course. "Can you fence?" Absolutely. Whatever they say, you can do it and then, hey, how difficult can it be? And so you learn it. It was a lot of fun doing that. I got to work with Alan Bates. Oliver Reed in one of his more sober periods, which was fun. He was a very good actor actually, Oliver Reed. A few really good people in it. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed working with the director (Richard Lester). Of course, he used to bemoan the fact that he'd only be remembered as the man who directed The Beatles. (Laughs.) Which I always thought was kind of a funny comment. But it's true, probably.

Q: if…, O Lucky Man!, and A Clockwork Orange are definitely in the canon of great films and most likely will always be there. How does it feel to know that you made such a lasting contribution?

MM: Of course, one doesn't go through one's life thinking that. You can't - you never think of that. If it's just the fact, then it's the fact. Of course, I'm extremely lucky and feel privileged that it was me. It could well have been somebody else. It's just the luck of the draw, really. The luck of the way it went down. It also gave me, I suppose, a cross to bear. How could you possibly live up to the expectations of these classics? You can't. So, you have to go back to the bread-and-butter stuff and, sort of start again. But that's a lot of fun, too. I don't mind. I like that actually. I don't mind it. It's all part and parcel of the ups and downs of a career. I always said I didn't want to be a film star per se. I wanted to be a real professional actor, like John Gielgud or Ralph Richardson or whoever.

Q: Of things you're offered, how do you go about deciding what to take?

MM: Well, it all depends, but usually you look at the script. You know instantly whether you like it. If you like it, whether or not -- where's it going to be shot? Who's in it? Who's directing it? How much are they going to pay? Can they pay your fee? Because I'm a professional, too. We're not working for charity here. If it's something I totally love, like Gangster Number 1 that's not a - that doesn't become an issue with me. I''d rather do the work that I like. But, you know, I do some films for the money. I'll be quite honest about it. I do them for the money. There are three criteria: Script, location, price. You have to get two out of three. If there's two out of the three, I'll probably do it. If it's three out of three - wow! I've hit the jackpot.

Q: You've had two TV series that didn't quite make it. Do you expect to try it again or has the experience soured you on TV?

MM: Well, you know, in my mind, of course, I think they made it, because just to get a damned pilot accepted is a near-miracle these days when you consider they make 120 pilots and, like, three are chosen. Having gotten through that whole process, having gotten through one whole season with a sitcom called Pearl, which I thought was extremely good, considering what it was...I learned an awful lot about comedy from that. It was a great learning process. I loved every second of it, except I found it very difficult to learn all those lines when they keep changing all the time. Other than that, I loved it. I think 22 was enough, frankly. If they had taken the option up and I'd been there for five years, I would have been mortified. The hour show. This Fantasy Island thing that I did, I feel the same way. I cannot - I like working fast. I'm quick to do it. I get there fast and want to move on. Let's move. Let's go. Let's do it. So that to shoot an hour in eight days is perfect for me. I like that. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough control about scripts and things. When you are asked to do something, you're not given that control. It's only when you go to them with an idea. But the pilot that they did was brilliant. It cost several million dollars and took 20 days to shoot. So, it should have been brilliant. When it actually came to do the substance of the season, they didn't really have the scripts. It was supposed to be this dark thing and it never materialized. They deserved to be canned. We deserved it. I was happy. To be honest with you, I was thrilled. Thrilled is a bit of an overstatement, but who wants to do -- you only want to do superlative work if you're going to be stuck doing it for a long time. You don't want to do substandard stuff, because it's an insult to your intelligence. And to your talent. It's an insult. So, if it didn't work out, better that it was canned. I think ABC did the right thing. Unfortunately, I think, the last three that we did, we got it right. Finally, they let go of the writers on it and they hired new one and they just got it right. And it was just too late. That was sad, because I loved doing the last three. And they were very good.

Q: What about working again in the theatre?

MM: Yes, I've been looking around for a play. I've been close to - I nearly did a one-man show in London, but I decided against it, because it wasn't there in the script. If it's not there on the page, then it ain't going to be there, you know, in the evening. I just didn't want people come around and say, "Oh, you were wonderful, old boy. But what the hell was that play about?" I just didn't want to face that. So, I thought, forget it. I'm only going to go back to work for scale in the theater if it's exciting and brilliant stuff to do.

Q: You're currently making Gangster No. 1. Do you have anything planned after that?

MM: I have been offered a part in a film, which I quite like, in England called - I'd better not say the name, because they haven't done the deal, yet. Then there's a script that I really love, which is to be shot in South Africa. Even though I swore I'd never go back there, I'm sure I'll be on that plane because it's such a good script.

Q: What kind of character would you be playing?

MM: An irascible Afrikaans who's been fired from his job, given early retirement, who is a trainer of marathon runner. He finds a girl who's an illegal immigrant from Namibia and who's a natural, who he teaches to do this race in South Africa. He actually falls in love with her. In a way, it's a love story, but, nothing, of course, is ever done. I mean, he's an old man. She's a young girl. But it is a love story. They love each other in a way. They have tremendous rows. They separate. He hates what he's coaching her, because he's coaching her to win. He's coaching her to go against her instincts of this free running, which she's wonderful at. It's a most delightful script. I love the part. I'll probably end up doing it.

Q: What about Gangster No. 1? What do you play in that?

MM: I'll give you one guess....

Q: Hmmm ... Gangster No. 1?

MM: Correct. (Laughs.)

Q: Who's directing that?

MM: A wonderful director, who think I think is going to be - he's a major talent. His name is Paul McGuigan.

Q: I think that's all. Congratulations on the new film.

MM: Thank you. I appreciate it. And you're not afraid or anything like that?

Q: Not anymore.

MM: Okay. Good. So, we set that to rest?

Q: We set that to rest.

MM: Oh good. I'm so glad.