Malcolm McDowell in NY 5/24/02
MM: Thank you. Now you see why it is one of my favorite films that's never really been seen by anybody. It was hard work being in Russia over that winter even though the director, Karen, moved out of his apartment in Moscow so I could stay in it - a very generous gesture. Every single person that we met was very generous to us, my wife and I. It sort of reminds me of middle America because they are a very generous group of people. I suppose it has something to do with the huge land mass. I'm from a small island so we're all real bastards underneath. It was one of the most interesting and wonderful experiences of my professional life doing this. I am proud of it and I love the country, it is a great place.
Q: Did they tell you or did you come up with your own interpretation of what Timofev was? Was he demon possessed, schizophrenic, reincarnated or playing games?
MM: I don't know. He was nuts...I don't know how nuts. Is he in fact insane? I don't think so, the things that have to be opened. He's not really crazy, he's rather wise actually. He plays that game, he plays the doctor to its inevitable end. Is it a game? I don't know. There is a moment when he knows he's got it. It was great fun doing the two parts. I'm not a method actor, it's organic. You dive into it. Who is not going to believe I'm Russian? I'm there in Russia, I look Russian. The only thing I had to ask Karen, this is honestly the truth, the first thing I asked him about this part was "How do you light a cigarette?" Because that's a dead giveaway. He showed me how to do it so I was on my way to the character. That was all I really needed to know.
Q: And the hat?
MM: The hat was the hat.
Q: Can you understand me and do you speak any Russian?
MM: You are perfectly understandable. Not a word!
Q: The film is hypnotic - is that the Russian way?
MM: It is a very hypnotic film. It's so easy to play a Russian when you are there surrounded by Russians. You fit right in. That's it. I don't know, the English must have just left me at the airport. I will tell you this. The best meal I've ever had in my life was on the British Airways flight from Moscow to London. I swear to god that was a three star meal. The best, the best! My wife and I sat there drooling. It was just airline food, but to us the variety was staggering.
Q: It seems odd they didn't serve that kind of food on the set?
MM: Are you kidding? We had a cook that they supplied us with who was a dear, sweet lady. She had to go line up for a chicken at 5 o'clock in the morning and pay with dollars. I got per diems in this paper money, Rubles, I might as well thrown it up in the air as confetti. They couldn't afford my price as it were, but I knew I wanted to do this film. As soon as I met Karen it didn't matter. I was going to do this film. It was a wonderful piece of writing and a worthwhile project. Where else would you make a film like this? Certainly not in Hollywood, forget it.
Q: The locations are incredible, are they all real places?
MM: No. We were in Katherinberg and of course Moscow and Vladimir which is an ancient capitol - three or four hours drive. It was only 20 miles away, but it takes three or four hours. Very bumpy road right past the missile silos. I think we were one of the first foreigner to see it. "What are those? and they are all pointed that away!" (Toward the US). So the deal my agent worked out in London since they couldn't pay the market price. I said, "Well, I've always loved Russian paintings so try and get me some." My agent said, "Well, how am I going to get my commission on three paintings!?" I said, "Well, you can come over to my house and look at them!" So we went all over Moscow to people's apartments looking for painters, but most of them have left for Israel already. They'd gone. But we did get some paintings.
Q: You did get some artwork?
MM: Yes. We got some icons too because I was a guest of the government. We didn't realize this at first that we didn't go through customs. I'm going, "Did you?" Somebody took the passport, we went straight from the plane right through. No customs, nothing. So when we came out for two weeks break over Christmas and went back. We thought, "Well, we can take some icons out, because hey...you know." We went looking for icons with our confetti money and there was a beautiful religious painting on a piece of wood this big (holds hand up around 5 feet), this tall, that wide (2 feet). So the joke was that the painting was relatively inexpensive, but just the packing material was the big problem. The cardboard, string and a handle on it. We get to the airport and suddenly the mood changed overnight because Gorbachev was running out at the time. Suddenly there had been reports on the radio of foreigners agitating and all this. We are at the airport with a big icon in a cardboard box and suddenly somebody came up to us and said, "What's in this thing?" I'm going, "Sorry, I'll have to translate that. Oh, this is my surfboard." The more ridiculous thing you say the easier it is to believe. I couldn't believe it. "Well, we're going to California eventually."
Q: Of course you always pick up surfboards in Russia.
MM: That's it. They never questioned it.
Q: Is there a Russian language version?
MM Yes.
Q: Was your part dubbed?
MM: Yes. I was not required to learn it in Russian I'm glad to say. That would've been a deal breaker right there. The poor Russian actors had to learn it in English. and I really felt bad for them. I understood them better in Russian than in English. I was like "What the hell was that?" Because they sort of learned it phonetically like pigeon English. (Does Russian voice) "The pa rade came in the cen ters down...there." That's why it sounds a little weird occasionally in the dub. It was strange doing it. We had to shoot it twice - in two takes. They would work hours on the Russian one and like one take on the English. Right, over gone! "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute I want to do that over again." "No, there's nothing wrong there."
Q: Oleg spoke pretty well I thought?
MM: (Gives a condescending look) No. He went back in and dubbed the whole the whole performance again. There was some fuzzy stuff. He did speak pretty well. I could understand him. It was the older doctor I couldn't understand.
Q: Was there a paranormal aspect to it?
MM: Well, I look at it as a member of the audience like you do. When you're
shooting it you are just concerned with your bit and your moment in time when
you are shooting. When I first saw it I was sort of amazed. It sort of is, but I
asked Karen, the director, about this. He was rather brilliant. He was sick, he
had some trouble and he went to a hospital to recuperate. He was reading all of
Chekhov's short stories. Chekhov has a very similar device as they used in this.
He lifted it from one of his stories. I don't remember which one it was, I can't
remember the title now. It was a brilliant steal, the whole paranormal thing.
It's a real interesting aspect. He wrote the birds and all that. I never
understood why they made him the tsar killed of many tsars. One would have been
enough for me. I kept saying, "It's confusing". Why don't we stick
with the one we all know? Who cares about his granddad? "No." Also I
had a speech which went on for...it was twelve sides long. It started with,
"I was born in Tomsk in 1867...or whatever." And it went on and on and
on. So I go up to the director, which I normally do, and said,
"Right. This speech I'm about to start, let's cut it now. I'd rather you
cut it now so I don't have to learn it than you cut it in the editing room. What
do you think?"
And he goes, "No. No cutting."
I went, "What? You're kidding!? Twelve pages? It's going to take me half an
hour to get through it."
"No. Russians like to talk."
I said, "Are you sure Karen? I could be watching this film and this speech
comes on and I could go out to the bathroom, number 2 - take a dump. I come back
and I'm still talking!"
"No."
So it took me two weeks to learn this damn thing and when I first did it he
went, "It's too slow. Fast" I'm thinking...having thinking time, where
the hell? He wanted it bah bah bah bah bah coming out like this. Eventually I
get through it. It's all one shot creeping. "The lens creeping in like this."
Of course when I see the damn movie he's cut half of it out. But that's the
director's prerogative.
Q: But you had to learn it anyway?
MM: Yeah. That's why you get paid the big bucks.
Q: Was the mansion where the family was killed a set?
MM: The Apartied house where they were butchered? It was an incredibly faithful reproduction. The original one was pulled down by Yeltsin who was the governor of that particular providence at the time. They used a house that was very similar in architecture and put the stockade up and everything as it was from photographs. The inside was a studio in Moscfilm - incredibly accurate. It was so accurate that they used the furniture from the actual house that was stored. I'm a collector of toys and I saw this beautiful yacht and I said to my wife, "Go take a look at that. That's something else - that boat, the toy. Let's see if that can be negotiated." She lifted it up and the director said, "Be careful. That was Alexis. That was his actual yacht toy." Every single piece of set dressing is absolutely authentic. The rooms were measured. The room where they were butchered was that size - tiny. 12 feet by 14 feet and there were...22 people in it my wife is telling me - she knows, she was there the whole time. 22 people crammed in that room and they butchered them all. The ones who didn't die immediately, Anastasia, they bayoneted, but this was an execution by the state. We say, "Hey, that's murder which ever way you look at it." Well, it depends on whether you are Russian or not. It's sad actually because the tsar was quite a sweet man and it was very sad he had to pay for the sins of his fathers.
Q: He was a pawn of history.
MM: Of course. Who isn't? We are all pawns
Q: The dining room sequence is fantastic...
MM: Oh, I love that. When he comes in with the eggs just to size him up for the execution. Just to get a look. It is one of my favorite bits.
Q: Why hasn't it been distributed? Is it too Russian?
MM: The answer to that is the people who made the film, the English connection, were computer software importers and exporters. So when they were dealing with the distributors in the film business they didn't really know what the hell they were doing as far as I can gather. They had high expectations for the film that never realized themselves. They thought it was worth a lot more than it really was. The English side supplied all the film stock and that stuff. The lighting man was brilliant! brilliant! With nothing you would think it was Thanksgiving because there was all this tin foil and reflectors. They didn't have gorgeous reflectors, but they didn't need them. Their ingenuity is so incredible that they know how to make it work without all the expense. They know how to do it. They just adapted to that way of life. Kelley was flicking rubber bands and kids were diving to keep them because that was a valuable product. You couldn't get them. Everything about it was different. The costumes that they made were beautifully done. I wouldn't want to wear them more than a half dozen times because of the fabrics were quite cheap. Beautifully made, but cheap - they got what they could. Like I told you with the make-up, the hair and all that stuff.
Q: How long did the shoot take?
MM: It took five months, but I went back and forth a couple of times so it wasn't that bad. It started off in Summer and went right through the seasons. Then they went to the Crimea to shoot at the palace down there. I wasn't involved in that sequence.
Q: There is some hope that the film will be released in the next year?
MM: Because of Mike Kaplan. I hope so.
Q: Did you shoot all the scenes from one time period first?
MM: No. We shot location first to shoot the outsides, in the rain and all that. The photographers location and all that. Then we inside shot the Apartied house in Moscow. Then at the very end, in harsh winter, we went to the insane asylum or clinic which was a beautiful old house that was falling to bits like pretty much every building over there. It was all crumbling and there is no money for construction and it is all collapsing. 77 years of communist rule...what can I tell you?
Q: Have you been back since?
MM: No, I haven't.
Q: When are you going to write your memoirs?
MM: Well...I have been asked. I don't have the time. I will do it though I suppose when I start to wind down. At the moment I have so many projects on the boil. It took 40 years to grow into my face. It took me 20 years to get rid of the school boy parts. Once you are stamped, because I always had a young look, it took me ages to play a real person - a mature adult. It was always the rebel, the heavy, the this the that. I'm looking forward to playing some really good middle aged parts. So I'll do my biography after that.
Q: There are such differences between Assassin and Gangster No. 1.
Q: Yes, that was the idea of the retrospective. Like if you come back and see Get Crazy...
MM: Yes, it was. Well you wouldn't think of me as a pop star! But I'll tell you that was a lot of fun. Can we get out of the down Russian thing now and move on to the pop? That was fun. Playing Mick Jagger was great! They even let me do my own singing. I remember the director saying, "Can you sing?" "Well...can Mick Jagger sing?" That's a little unkind. Actually he can, he's pretty remarkable.
Q: Did you feel compelled to read up on Russia and the Tzars?
MM: The answer is no...but of course I've read novels, biographies actually,
on Nichols and Alexander. We all knew something about it. I say he is rather a
sweet man because I've seen the film! I know this correct because Russians made
this and they certainly wouldn't let this go by. To make a film in Russia it had
to be absolutely correct. From that point of view I don't need to go into a
psychological hoo ha to do this performance. It would hinder the performance. It
would hinder me. I would hate to do that. I'm not that kind of actor. I keep
saying this time and time again, but I'll keep beating it. I have to serve the
script, the screenwriter and the director - not some novel. Not some idea,
"No, I couldn't possibly..." What is in the script I try to give flesh
and bone, muscle and give it another dimension and make it work. I had a
wonderful director to guide me. I was in the middle of a story and then I got
distracted. He loved the way western actors worked. He went (Russian accent),
"I like very much acting like you do because you just do it. Not
talking." He like talking learning it, but he didn't like talking doing it.
He was very happy that I just went on and in, did it, got out and wanted to go
home and get a cup of tea. "Let's move on boys. Let's get on with it and
not talk it to death." That's sort of my attitude. I just want to do it.
You throw the paint up and see what sticks and you go with it. That's basically
the way I like to work.
He's had his hand up, yes? (She) Sorry, I'm blind as well as deaf. I thought you
had a rather smart hat on. Yes, just try acting.
Q: What was the Russian reaction to the film?
MM: I'd love to be able to tell you, but I never went back. I was doing a film in Krakow and I went to the local market, strolling through, and a lot of the store holders were Russians. I was very popular back there because they had all seen it. They were going, "Ah...Assassin of the Tzar. Ah...you're awesome! You're awesome."
Q: Malcolm has a big following in Russia. I've been told by the Russian community.
MM: Yeah, they love Caligula! They love Clockwork Orange too. They love the Lindsay Anderson movies because they are faintly revolutionary so they like that.
Q: Romanov is presented in the film as not wanting the job.
MM: He's a sad pawn. He's just rather sad. He knows what his fate is going to be. He knows he's going to be sacrificed. There's a subtlety there, a very subtle difference.
Q: What was your favorite film to work on?
MM: Let me answer you though I don't totally understand the question. Always the part you are playing at the time is your favorite. It has to be because you are creating it. So that's my favorite. At the moment I am playing God...and I hate it! I'm really bad at it, but I'm trying to get better. I'm starting on a new project, and when I start on it, that will be my favorite film that I like working on. Of the ones from the past...honestly I can't say the which is my favorite because they all mean so much to me. It's like saying which is your favorite child. They are all wonderful in many ways and some not so. Usually you like the bastard ones. The ones that really are not big hits. I suppose to me O Lucky Man! is one of my favorite films. I think it is a wonderful, wonderful film. The films I did with Lindsay Anderson who was an absolute incredible director and human being. I hate to use the word genius, it's used for ball players and Christ whatever else, but if there ever was a man I met who I could put that label on it was Lindsay Anderson. He was a stunning intellect and a humanist as well. Where as Kubrick had the intellect, but he was sort of a satirist. He couldn't relate to you as a human being. He could relate to his dog, he was good with dogs.
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