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Just Like Herodotus?:

I thought Thucydides' history would have to be just like Herodotus': I mean, they lived within a few decades of each other, from the back cover it seemed that Thucydides had picked up the story almost exactly where Herodotus had left it...it would make sense for the two works to be very similar. Well, I realized within the first few paragraphs that this history would be very different. First, there was very little mythology: Herodotus mixed mythology, rumor, and history into one, Thucydides seemed only interested in the history: the who did what when. Second, there were speeches everywhere! Not scattered private conversation like in Herodotus, but (it seemed) every important speeches delivered to the public during that time. All-in-all, Thucydides was interesting for his first-hand view of the Peloponnesian wars, though not entertaining like Herodotus!

The Big Idea:

I have been putting off writing this for a few weeks because I feel that this work is complete and self explanatory and requires few specific comments. In other words, I just was not inspired. So, I though I would write about some of the big ideas Ms. Moser and I noticed and maybe compare some of them to Herodotus.

The first thing that struck me was that Thucydides seemed to present the Spartans in a 'better' light, but I could not find anything in the text that would support that argument - actually the fact the Thucydides was an Athenian general would make it more likely that he favored Athens. So why did I feel that the Spartans were 'right' after reading his history? I still have no answer to that, but I believe it must have something to do with the fact that Thucydides never specifically says what he thinks about a certain person or action, and having read Herodotus, I figured that the Spartans, who always made careful decisions and did not seem to be too proud or arrogant, were the 'good guys'. I guess that means that either Thucydides managed to remove himself so far from the conflict that he painted an unbiased picture of both sides, or that his idea of 'good' is different from Herodotus'. Assuming that I am not completely off on both, the second one seems more likely! But how are the two historians' styles different, and could I come up with a why?

The biggest difference is, of course, subject: Herodotus wrote about a foreign enemy, Thucydides about two nations/alliances with similar customs and beliefs (maybe I should compare it to the Iliad next time), which gives Herodotus less reason to present both sides objectively - it makes sense for him to exaggerate the size of the Persian army or the arrogance of the Persian kings. Herodotus' writing has, for lack of a better word, an obvious moral: don't be arrogant because arrogance causes recklessness and the reckless suffer retribution.

Thucydides' point(s) seem less clear-cut. Because both sides seem to live in a gray area, neither proving more 'just' or 'good' than the other, I think Thucydides conveys his beliefs through the speeches and dialogues of individual people presented as just/virtuous or foolish/reckless. The Spartan king, Archidamus, who Thucydides praises as a man of "both intelligence and moderation" makes a speech in book one to urge the Spartans not to go to war right away but to send embassies to Athens and in the meantime to prepare their defenses. So, Archidamus is urging the Spartans to increase their numbers because they are inferior the Athenians' and to try to reach an agreement - the opposite of what Herodotus' armies did i.e. go to war even though they were outnumbered and win because they had to.

Using what I read in Pollit's Art and Experience in Classical Greece, I came up with an interesting idea: Herodotus' history shows confidence, Thucydides' shows doubt. The Greeks stopped warring amongst themselves to take on a common enemy and, against the odds, won - much to be proud of! Thucydides, perhapss, saw where that pride led: the same place that Xerxes' pride led him - destruction. Instead of coming together the Greek states were fighting the biggest war between them yet! No wonder Thucydides does not reflect confidence in his own city, Athens, but doubt for the whole Greek world.