Don Tosaw wrote:
Actually, I see the 2004 election differently. I believe that the root of the problem is right-wing corporate control of
too much of the mainstream media. The Left is making a concerted effort
to do something about this, but we face a daunting task. Air America
radio is growing and making an impact, but it will take time. They
just got started 7 months ago and are growing rapidly. We should
not abandon our main social message of economic opportunity and economic
and social justice for all. I think that this message will have growing
appeal over time. Also, we must eliminate unauditable electronic voting
systems and somehow motivate more young voters to vote.
In the closing days of the election, I believe that
John Kerry spent too much time taking about terrorism and security and not
enough time talking about jobs, Social Security and affordable health care.
My reply,
That is not the problem.
I said the following 7 months before the election on Sat, 17 Apr 2004
One can also state with near certainty
that if the Bush regime is still in power this time next year, the American
people will have experienced the first coup d’ etat in the history of American
presidential elections and the limited democracy of the United States will
be no more. The United States will be under the rule of a minority and
dictatorship will reign supreme. No matter what polls will show to
justify a “Bush victory” in November, should it be proclaimed, and no matter
how the media will attempt to rationalize the vote count, the fact will remain
that bourgeois democracy will have been overthrown with the assistance and
camoflage provided by pollsters, vote counters, and media mouthpieces who
are owned, financed, and dominated by the fattest of the fat cats, Bush’s
strongest allies.
==========================================
The following conversation took place on Sun, 18 Apr 2004
Dave Grimesey wrote:
I wish I could agree with you on this...I really
do. Unfortunately, the American people are too stupid to not vote for
him. They still like him personally and think he is a cool dude.
Many Americans still vote [for President] as if this was a high school student
council election. Yeah, he screwed everything up and yeah he lied,
but gosh I like him so I'll vote for him again and give him a second chance.
That is what they think and that is why he will win again. If you think
differently, please speak up because I want to be wrong.
My reply,
Bush has no chance and should he be declared the winner
on Nov 3, that will only bring into play the final comments in my prior post.
A coup d' etat will have occurred despite all lies, propaganda, and coverups
to the contrary. The American people as a whole are not as detached
from reality as you are alleging.
What determines elections more than anything else are
material conditions and two of the most critical are the economy (jobs, gas
prices, etc.) and war. The record of the Bush regime in these respects
is abysmal.
Although many Americans do vote as you suggest, millions
of others are not wedded to any candidate and will throw out their brother
if he is not producing. They don't intend to go over a cliff for anyone.
for the cause,
Klo
===============================
The following exchange occurred on Sun, 18 Apr 2004
Andrew Hood wrote:
But what do you thank about CIA factor on
this dawg when he blamed them for not finding WMDs in Iraq and let his administration
out a covert CIA employee even though his whole family is supposed to be
beholden to this gang.
My reply,
I would not put anything past
the Bushites when it comes to staying in office but the important point is
to make the American people aware of what I said in a prior post: If
the Bushites are in power this time next year, the presidency of the United
States will have been seized in a surreptitious coup d' etat and any semblance
of democracy will have been trashed. I don't care what the pollsters,
vote counters, or media mouthpieces would be alleging in November.
They are all paid bourgeois agents of the most blatant variety or dupes.
Anyone who would buy their spiel defending a Bush "victory" is brainwashed.
for the cause,
Klo
===========================================
NOV 3, 2004 ADDENDUM TO MY COMMENTS:
The felonious manipulation of votes, voting machines, vote
counting, and vote assimilation in the Nov. 2004 election, along with the
absence of any means by which to check many key votes through paper duplications,
etc., has destroyed all future credibility of American presidential elections.
People exercising their franchise should realize that their votes are accumulated,
shipped, sorted, counted, and dispersed to even larger assimiliation centers
by people who are themselves anything but objective, neutral or dispassionate.
Those involved in these procedures are often some of the most active political
figures and have a vested interest in the outcome, not to mention the fact
that they can be persuaded to make alterations, deletions, and additions
to votes and machines by outside forces and enticements. This is the
political equivalent of having the weasel guard the henhouse. In effect,
it is no different than having candidates gather and count votes cast in
their own election. This is a prescription for disaster, especially
in a nation as polarized as the United States in which crypto-fascist groups
are willing to employ any means to obtain victory with little concern for
legality, ethics, integrity, or morality. In light of these circumstances
it has become abundantly apparent that presidential elections in which fair
and impartial employees and volunteers are in charge of all activities throughout
the entire process are no longer possible in the United States. A new
approach involving the use of far more neutral foreign personnel to gather
and count the votes has become mandatory, as has been true in many national
elections throughout the world. Why should the US be any different
if conditions warrant.
Tens of thousands of International observers and counters
must be employed on a broad scale and in key battle areas. The financial
cost will be substantial but there is no longer an alternative. The
fairness and objectivity so necessary for an American election to have credibility
no longer exists and there is no means by which it can be restored without
a major infusion of neutral control and administration accompanied by many
procedural reforms.
In the terms of the vernacular, the 2004 election was
stolen. Clearly a large team of highly paid experts has developed the
art of stealing, rather than winning, elections to a well-honed science, complete
with camoflage, deception, and finances. Felonious acts are primarily
employed in areas where the vote will be close or in districts where the
vote will be overwhelmingly favorable to the other side. In order to
evade detection most effectively, illegal activity is understandably restricted
as much as is practical but the American Right-wing now has no hesitation
about employing it when deemed necessary. The crypto-fascist aspect
permeating this entire travesty is transparent and all too obvious, especially
when pre-election surveys agree with exit polls but both differ dramatically
from the final counts on, or allegedly on, the voting machines.
For the cause,
Klo
PS. I wrote a heavily researched book entitled
READING HITLER, RECOUNTING BUSH which not only proves how they duplicate one
another in many key respects but is an excellent harbinger of what occurred
on Nov. 2nd.
It can be read at: http://www.geocities.com/klomckin/
=================
cbc1123 wrote:
The head of the Ohio Democratic Party said Ohio
Democrats are not willing to concede the election. They are in the process
of investigating the innumerable incidents of vote fraud.
My reply,
This needs to be done in far more areas than
just Ohio considering the fact that another presidential election was stolen.
What I find highly suspect is the speed with which Kerry was willing to concede
defeat. Would you race to surrender when many pre-vote and exit surveys
in many areas agreed and showed you won their votes while the actual vote
count coming from the machines claims Bush got the votes people said they
gave to you. Hardly! It is difficult not to conclude collusion
is involved in which both parties agreed beforehand to make sure the masses
don't start physically objecting to the outcome, putting that concern above
the people's will.
Ralph Nader's claim the Dems and Reps are
two wings of the same party is far more in tune with reality than millions
of Americans realize. But, then again, the four presidential and vice
presidential candidates are all millionaires.
for the cause,
Klo
=======================
Don Tosaw wrote:
The Democrats didn’t need his help to lose the election. Kerry’s failure to address gay marriage was a fatal mistake.
My reply,
That is nonsense. Kerry did not make
any significant mistakes in his message and he got the majority of the votes
nationally. The election was stolen, that's the problem, the problem
that dwarfs all others. Theft occurred in 2000 and is now the intended
outcome of the 2008 election. As I have said repeatedly in post after
post, the crypto-fascists have taken over the United States government and
they DON'T intend to ever relinquish power. We have just had demonstrable
evidence of that fact.
for the cause,
Klo
==================
MY COMMENTS:
I suspected the American 2000 presidential
election was stolen but allowed the issue to pass essentially unchallenged.
There is no suspecting or intention to allow the issue to pass this time.
I am POSITIVE this election was stolen and a coup d' etat has been successfully
carried out by crypto-fascists via massive voter fraud and felonious activity
in key battle ground areas. The evidence revealed so far is more than
sufficient to prove a coup occurred and there can be little doubt it is only
the tip of the iceberg. When entrance and exit polls match but totally
disagree with what counters say they found on the voting machines, the evidence
of lying and fraud is, as lawyers would say, prima facie--obvious on its
face. Finding evidence that the machines themselves had been rigged
prior to the election or altered following same will only be icing on the
cake.
It is clear that all the time the anti-Bush
forces were winning TV presidential debates, proving their arguments by one
fact after another, writing a multitude of exposure books, delineating all
the failures of the Bush regime with respect to the economy, the war, the
health care system, jobs, the national debt, leadership, etc., the crypto--fascists
were working assiduously behind the scenes with an incredible amount of money
to do what really mattered, namely, pre-fixing the election by any legal
or illegal means possible with no concern whatever for honesty, integrity,
morality, or legality.
Some will no doubt ask why Kerry and his lawyers
do not embark upon legal battles throughout the nation to fight the alleged
result since the evidence of fraud is so widespread. The answer lies
in the fact that those in control of the Democrat and Republican parties
agreed beforehand that elections will not be contested via bitter legal battles
because of the obvious tremendous ramifications. If evidence brought
out in court struggles reveals to millions of people that their candidate
was, in fact, cheated out of being victorious by massive fraud, vote tapering,
corruption, and other felonious acts, and the proclaimed victor is not deposed,
they will be motivated to embark upon mass demonstrations, violence, destruction,
and other activities which the ruling class fears. Even more importantly,
hundreds of thousands of people, especially young people, will be radicalized
as occurred during the Vietnam War era when government decisions directly
clashed with mass demands. And most important of all, millions would
now realize the propaganda they had been fed throughout their entire lives
to the effect that the United States was the beacon of world democracy and
freedom in which the majority ruled had become a farce, a charade.
As far as the American ruling class is concerned one would be hard pressed
to find outcomes more odious or threatening.
for the cause,
Klo
========================
Don Tosaw wrote:
Getting rid of unauditable (no paper trail) voting machines needs to be the top priority. Otherwise, all of our other efforts could prove fruitless.
My reply,
Machines with paper trails are not the answer
because computers can be programmed to do everything but cook breakfast both
before and after the election. One could easily program machines to
register one result on the machine and another on the paper receipt, for
example. An election is only as valid as the integrity and neutrality
of the people setting up the machines, assembling the votes, transporting
the votes, and counting the votes. No, the situation is so EXTREMELY
SERIOUS in the United States, the nation is so polarized, philosophies are
so widely divergent, those handling the entire process [the majority of whom
are republicans] are so biased and prejudiced that people from other nations
with no ax to grind and no interest in the candidates will have to be brought
in to monitor the entire process, as has been done in many nations throughout
the world. The United States can no longer be an exception. Otherwise,
you can forget about ever having another valid election and the only alternative
for real change will become mass upheaval or the threat of same.
To those feeling they can find a sufficient
number of truly neutral and honest individuals within the United States, I
can only say, "Good luck. You may succeed but I am yet to see how, since
that prospect appears more remote with every passing day."
for the cause,
Klo