ZZ Top's Dusty Hill

The kings of Cyberblues are back with a new album; Dusty Hill talked to Gibson Keddie about roots, rhythms and blue hair dye

"I don't like the term 'return to roots', because if you have roots, they stay with you, you never leave them to return..."

Pertinent comment indeed concerning the current ZZ Top approach, from the guy who steers the bass path through their songs. With a career approaching the end of a third decade, ZZ Top are an un-usual band in many respects, not least that the original trio has remained throughout. For a blues'n'boogie band, that ain't half bad, though the Top have always sought to put a spin on their grooves so that you don't always quite get what you expect.

Originally formed from two bands, with guitarist Billy Gibbons, one of the most original and talented of all modern electric blues guitarists, coming out of the blues psychedelia of The Moving Sidewalks, Dusty Hill and drummer Frank Beard having served some time in American Blues, a band which featured another hotshot guitarist contemporary of Gibbons - Dusty's elder brother, Rocky. Masterminded by manager and luminary-cum-impresario Bill Ham, the fledgling trio was immediately despatched on a 'make 'em or break 'em' tour of the Texas boondocks. ZZ Top proved equal to the challenge and returned as a crack fighting unit, one which would become a huge attraction in their home state of Texas, long before their appeal reached these shores, where absolutely everyone in the UK has been guilty of saying 'Zed Zed Top' at least once, before translation allows the penny to drop.

At one time, the self-proclaimed 'Li'l ol' band from Texas' were breaking stadium gig attendance records set by then-world dominating bands such as Led Zeppelin as far back as the early/mid 70s. With such a lengthy track record, and now a new album 'Rhythmeen' about to appear in the midst of their currently-happening European tour, I asked Dusty about the band's enthusiasm in such situations - no doubt about this guy's motivation - he even sparks up answering the question!

"We all still enjoy playing so much, that's great, but doing the shows we're very enthusiastic. This time, as a matter of fact, it's a pretty cool stage, backstaging and all that stuff. But we didn't want to make it as big a production as we have in the past, because we got a lot of feedback from people who wanted it to really be more about the music. I mean, we couldn't help ourselves but to put a few little things in there, just because! Mainly it's just music and playing. The anticipation is not like nervousness, it's looking forward to it."

Rhythmeen

Every ZZ Top tour gets its own title too, and this is their 'Continental Safari', featuring a neo-tribal stage setting designed to reflect the ethnic authenticity of their chosen musical form - like the stage setting, the sound on 'Rhythmeen' is primitive and raw, certainly unlike the solid multiple layers of guitar that have appeared on all ZZ albums from 'Eliminator' onwards. Back into the future, Dusty?

"Right, I'm glad you said that. Exactly. And on stage it ought to work very well because some of the songs, Billy, if he wants to play a lead three, four, five times, he can do it. There's nothing holding him back. That's the way we like to focus on each other when we're playing, you know, to have some room to move around. Not be constricted."

Prior to the interview, the band had performed three songs for an action-packed 'Later with Jools Holland' - if you caught the show, you'll understand what the Safari is about - loud, raw and basic, as Dusty continues.

"'Rhythmeen' is really just bass, guitar, drums and vocals, with a few exceptions... not even much over-dubbing of rhythm guitar. We really tried to go straight and let the rhythms of the songs - that's why it's called 'Rhythmeen' - come out. But we still throw in the 'odd' songs, like Vincent Price Blues, on the new record. I love that song because it's real odd, and if you listen to the lyrics, it's funny; it's about a guy who's taking no responsibility for his actions: "...hey, but it's not my fault, Vincent Price said it was okay....". And the reason we chose Vincent Price, that's off the wall, as well. We'd talked about what it might've been like to sit around having dinner with Vincent. It could get kinda... weird, don't you think?"

Speaking of weird, when you and Frank were in American Blues, you actually dyed your hair blue way back then, didn't you? Dusty laughs as he remembers this state of affairs.

"At that time we were playing out at these clubs in Texas, and there was a real, real good crop of excellent musicians; a lot of good bands, there still is. The great guitarists, man, there was Stevie Ray Vaughan and, of course, Jimmie, Stevie's older brother, Eric Johnson, Van Wilks, Johnny Winter. Stevie, I guess he was nine when I first met him so he was always 'Little Stevie', and it was kind of odd for me when he popped through as a big star; I knew he could play, but when he got that popular... Well, he was over here in London where we were one time and he walked into the dressing-room with the press all around, and I said, "Hey, little Stevie...!" "Don't call me that!" he says, 'cause he's doing the 'big' image! It's a shame what happened to him. Great talent. But Rocky and Jimmie Vaughan, and Johnny Winter, all those cats around. Hot competition. That's why we dyed our hair blue, so at least everyone'd remember us... 'Oh, those guys with the blue hair, I remember those guys...

"You can tell by this group now that we're not above trying to stand out a little bit, too! And humour is a great thing. We're serious about playing music, but we don't take ourselves that seriously. I leave it to the likes of Bob Dylan, who I like, to do that, and that's fine."

Did you use horns with American Blues?

"Not so much; occasional rhythm guitar, occasional organ. I'd had experience of playing with horns though; I'd played with guitarist Freddie King a long time ago, and had the opportunity to play with a horn section, and that was a gas; I love 'em, they're just like background singers. But you obviously have to adapt your playing when you're playing with five, six pieces. Three piece, instead of being a problem, is more free and natural to me. I don't have so many instruments to contend with. Not compete," he emphasises; "contend..."

Mention of horns brings up an interesting point. During recordings for the heavy R&B-type feel of 1979's monster-tough album 'Deguello', given that the band eschew the use of session players (nor do they do music work individually outside of ZZ Top), the threesome, needing horn parts to augment a particular track, learned enough sax to play a three part harmony, and credited the session to The Lone Wolf Horns!

"Yes, we learned that part," recalls Dusty, "and it took us forever! None of us were horn players, and we honked and squeaked, and made all sorts of cattle sounds, you know, we would draw all the wild animals over to where we were because they'd hear these sounds... Anyway, we learned the parts, and someone asked me why I didn't just go and hire a three-sax set. But once again, it didn't seem that odd an idea at the time. We took a couple of lessons and learned the parts and played them. And then what we did when we toured back then - this is a little time before the videos were pop-ular - we put it on a screen behind us. We called them The Lone Wolf Horns, like they were a separate three guys. I've since forgotten how to play, even that much."

You couldn't recreate the part, then?

"Oh no. We could prob-ably recreate the honks and awful sounds..."

Eliminator

Then came the mega, world-beating, zillion platinum-shiftin' Elim-inator', with its heavily synthed'n'sequenced sounds, and of course those videos. Much of the bass was machine-sour-ced, and by nature very precise in feel. Given that the Top toured all this time with those songs where Dusty had to accu-rately recreate the bass groove, had it been difficult for him to get attuned to that feel considering that he is a bassist very much of the 'learn your craft on the road' old school?

"It was and it wasn't. Since I play in a three-piece group, my job is not to play too much, but you still have to play all the time. I've always loved Jack Bruce of Cream and that style of playing but he moved around a lot on the fretboard. I'll stay down there for the foundation, then maybe move. With the songs on 'Eliminator' I still did that same kind of thing, but with more preciseness..." he drawls heavily. "And I enjoy that, in a way, but you don't have the freedom to move around and throw in this and that occasionally, to play the part more. On this album I have more freedom, it's not so tied up."

'Eliminator' not only got you into MTV, but got you a kind of Cyberblues tag - 'low life meets high tech' you called it, but still very blues-based.

"Somewhere along the line you'll always draw back on that bank of interesting tit-bits of knowledge. It'll find its way into your music. That's why we did 'Eliminator' and 'Afterburner' at that time. People might say we did it because the music was changing. Not necessarily; we did it because we hadn't done it before. Believe me, we're not hi-tech technicians when it comes to that type of thing. We're like monkeys, you know, when they say they put them in a room with typewriters they'll eventually type something, well, eventually we'll write something. But it's fun for us. We did that, and now we don't do that, and it's just the same thing."

New Horizons

"Poland, Moscow, Latvia, South Africa, and it's, 'Oh great, man, some places we haven't been' that's what's good about the new 'Continental Safari' tour for us. I've talked on the phone to these places, in interviews or whatever, and I wind up interviewing them more; 'tell me about it over there'. So I look forward to it. Obviously, when you're touring, most of the time, unfortunately, you don't have time to look around. But we try to squeeze in as much as we can; it's an opportunity. I mean, people ask about touring, but that's what I do. Sometimes it's a drag getting up before I want to, and I don't like to fly, that type of thing, but I love being in different places. Sometimes the food where we might be doesn't agree with me, but the reason I know that, is that I try it. If you don't try it you shouldn't state an opinion about it."

Dusty's Basses

"I have an addiction to buying old ones... a lot of them are Fenders. I love their necks. I've got some Gibsons, as well. Of course, we've had custom ones made through the years. A long time ago I decided that I don't like a lot of knobs; I'll stand for two, but a lot of my basses have a volume knob and that's it, because I have my sound already set up. Someone once asked me to describe my sound and I said, I can't do that, but it's something like farting into a trash can. What I mean by that is I like a nastiness to it. Not inaudible, of course, I want to hear the notes because I hope I hit them all, and when I do, I want them to come across. But once again, in a three-piece format as a bass player, my job is playing melodically but making sure those holes aren't there either. Billy is a great guitarist, especially for a three-piece group, because he plays rhythm and lead, but there are times when he has to play lead, and Frank and I, we need to make that full sound behind him. And therein is the challenge and the pleasure, because that's fun.

'If you see us play, take a look at the basses I use. I say basses, because I change a few times during the show and they look pretty much alike, they're beat up pretty good, and hopefully they all sound the same, I strive for it; I don't change bass so that it sounds different, I just do it for tuning reasons. Look at the backline, Billy and I are using Orange equipment. Big, big, huge stack, six big boxes gradually leaning forward..." All through the interview, Dusty's enthusiasm has remained constant, and so we may be certain that ZZ Top isn't going 'Unplugged' just yet in order to regenerate flagging commitment.

"Oh no - we be plugged in, for sure!"