Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 02:09:33 -0000 From: auvenj@mailcity.com Subject: [lpaz-discuss] Re: Is ALP, Inc. a Political Party? To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com
--- In lpaz-discuss@y..., Mickey <Mickey@A...> wrote: > >I think you're accepting ALP, Inc.'s status as a political party
as a > >starting point (based on...? Their claims? The fact that they
have > >a campaign finance filing number with the S.o.S.?)
>
> Something like that. I admit to not having lots of details as to
the assorted court cases and the SoS's position. But I'm definitely starting from the point where I've accepted the state's recognition of Inc. as a party as prima facie evidence that Inc. is.Please specify exactly why _you_ think the state has recognized Inc. as a party. I have seen no evidence that they have done so.
Lest you assume that the very page I offered earlier from the S.o.S. with the filing numbers constitutes such evidence, go to the same search screen and type "Kahn". You'll see a committee for Ed Kahn's State Senate campaign. Why do I mention that? Because the campaign finance web site is for just that -- campaign finance. The filer numbers listed are for campaign finance reporting purposes. The report on several types of political organizations, not just political parties. The mere fact that a committee calling itself a political party appears on that page does NOT mean that entity is actually a political party in the eyes of the state. It means that the state recognizes that committee may raise and spend money for political purposes. Anyway, more below...
> >I reject ALP, Inc.'s status as a political party
> >on grounds of common sense (no registered voters, no candidates,
> >etc.) and then say, "this experiment has failed to prove that they
> >are!" Perhaps we are at an impasse.
>
> Since when did common sense figure into anything government
does? ;)Touche'!
> Seriously, I don't know what Title 16 or anything else has to say
on the matter. I figured that since they were assigned a filing number and have been several years in the business of being a political party, that they are in fact a political party. (I've got to start somewhere.) I'm not going to take your word for it that Inc. is not in fact a party. You'll have to provide compelling evidence from an authoritative source.I covered the filing number above. ALP, Inc. has been several years in the business of claiming to be ALP, does that mean you start from that premise and require proof that they are NOT ALP?
Now on to Title 16 (available at http://www.azleg.state.az.us/):
------ 16-901. Definitions 21. "Political party" means the state committee as prescribed by section 16-825 or the county committee as prescribed by section 16- 821 of an organization that meets the requirements for recognition as a political party pursuant to section 16-801 or section 16-804, subsection A. ------
To make this clear, section 16-801 defines the requirements for a "new party" and 16-804 defines the requirements for a "continuing party". Thus, a "Political party" under Title 16 is a state committee or a county committee that meets the requirements to be a "new party" or a "continuing party".
The specific referenced statutes are below. As you read these, ask yourself if ALP, Inc. qualifies as a "new party" or a "continuing party". If you think you have the answer, please post it. They have never petitioned as a new party. They have no registered voters and no candidates. Anyway, here are the statutes:
------ 16-825. State committee The state committee of each party shall consist, in addition to the chairman of the several county committees, of one member of the county committee for every three members of the county committee elected pursuant to section 16-821. The state committeemen shall be chosen at the first meeting of the county committee from the committee's elected membership.
16-821. County committee; vacancy in office of precinct committeeman A. At the primary electio the members of a political party entitled to representation pursuant to section 16-804 residing in each precinct shall choose one of their number as a county precinct committeeman, and the members shall choose one additional precinct committeeman for each one hundred twenty-five voters or major fraction thereof registered in the party in the precinct as reported pursuant to section 16-168, subsection G on March 1 of the year in which the general election is held. The whole number of precinct committeemen of a political party shall constitute the county committee of the party.
16-801. Representation of new party on ballot at primary and general elections A new political party may become eligible for recognition and shall be represented by an official party ballot at the next ensuing regular primary election and accorded a column on the official ballot at the succeeding general election upon filing with the secretary of state a petition signed by a number of qualified electors equal to not less than one and one-third per cent of the total votes cast for governor or presidential electors at the last preceding general election. The petition shall: 1. Bear the certification of the county recorder of each county that the signatures on the petition have been examined and that these are signatures of qualified electors of the county. 2. Be verified by the affidavit of ten qualified electors of the state, asking that the signers thereof be recognized as a new political party. The status as qualified electors of the signers of the affidavit shall be certified by the county recorder of the county in which they reside. 3. Be in substantially the form prescribed by section 16-315. 4. Be captioned "Petition for political party recognition".
16-804. Continued representation on basis of votes cast at last preceding general election or registered electors A. A political organization that at the last preceding general election cast for governor or presidential electors or for county attorney or for mayor, whichever applies, not less than five per cent of the total votes cast for governor or presidential electors, in the state or in such county, city or town, is entitled to representation as a political party on the official ballot for state officers or for officers of such county or local subdivision. B. In lieu of subsection A, a political organization is entitled to continued representation as a political party on the official ballot for state, county, city or town officers if, on November 1 of the year immediately preceding the year in which the general election for state or county officers and for city or town officers one hundred fifty-five days immediately preceding the primary election in such jurisdiction, such party has registered electors in the party equal to at least two-thirds of one per cent of the total registered electors in such jurisdiction. C. The secretary of state shall determine the political parties qualified for continued representation on the state ballot pursuant to this section by February 1 of the appropriate year. Each county recorder shall furnish to the secretary of state such information as the secretary of state may require no later than January 15 of such year. D. Each county recorder shall determine the political parties qualified for the county ballot pursuant to this section by February 1 of the appropriate year. E. Each city or town clerk of a city or town providing for partisan elections shall determine the political parties qualified for such city or town ballot pursuant to this section one hundred forty days before the primary election. ------
Is the reasoning behind my position clearer now?
--Jason Auvenshine
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