Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:18:34 -0700 From: isher@SPRYNET.COM (Dean Weingarten) Subject: Re: My Library Trip Today To: AZRKBA@asu.edu
Just a suggestion, people,
When we did our thing in Yuma (more is coming) we made sure there were no questions about what happened by having a person or two with a camcorder. I strongly suggest that you do this at the Glendale library. If they are going to treat you as a criminal suspect, they can be made to pay a price, mininmum, bad publicity, maximum, lawsuit city. An officer is not allowed to treat you as a felon just because you are armed.
On another track, maybe Phoenix should contact Sheriff Ralph Ogden in Yuma to understand his flat out refusal to take charge of weapons for purposes of 12-3102 A(10). He said, on the record, that it was a waste of manpower, he had better things for his deputies to do.
Dean W.
When you disarm your subjects, however, you offend them by showing that either from cowardliness or lack of faith, you distrust them; and either conclusion will induce them to hate you. Niccolo Machiavelli "The Prince"
> From: JG Starr <jgstarr@PRIMENET.COM>
> To: AZRKBA@asu.edu
> Subject: Re: My Library Trip Today
> Date: Monday, October 23, 2000 6:13 PM
>
> J.D.,
>
> I recently had a similar experience ("turn around - put your hands on top of
> your head") also at the Velma Teague branch, also very public.
>
> I wrote a letter describing my experiences and emailed it to the Glendale
> city gov - mayor, council, police chief, city mgr, and a bunch of others,
> including the state leg. and senate. The police have supposedly been 'talked
> to' about how to deal with us. Obviously, they didn't all get the message.
> I'd like to suggest you write a letter of your own. In fact it looks like
> most of it is already done in your email (and very well told, as well). It
> should help keep the pressure on.
>
> If you're interested, I'd be glad to email you a copy of my own letter,
> mailing lists, whatever. Most of those here have already seen it so rather
> than subject everybody to it again, feel free to contact me direct, at
> jgstarr@primenet.com (maybe they'll think it's a primenet.com conspiracy,
> heh heh heh....)
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> JDMCKIM Wrote:
>
>
> >This is my first post to this list. Thanks to Rick DeStephens for letting
> >me know of its existence. I was unaware of Saturday's gathering, and also
> >unaware of Glendale's weapons policy. Those signs are small.
> >
> >I just got back from the downtown Glendale library. I have never read
> >_Unintended Consequences_, so I strapped on an exposed 1911 and headed to
> >the library to see if they have it (they don't). I carried my Officer's
> >ACP, as I didn't want an ignorant cop to wreck the trigger on my Gold Cup
> >by dropping the slide.
> >
> >I walked up to the main entrance and waved at the librarian through the
> >door. She came to the door with a smile which turned to a grimace when I
> >told her I was carrying a pistol and needed the police to come check it per
> >the sign out front. She said she would call the police.
> >
> >I waited out front for ~10 minutes, then a cop sneaked around the front of
> >the building and, with his hand on his holstered pistol, told me to hold my
> >hands out to my sides. I did, and told him I was the one who requested
> >they come check my weapon. He came around beside me and removed my pistol
> >from the holster and then patted me down. Legal Q: is voluntarily checking
> >a weapon legal grounds for a Terry search? When he cleared my pistol he
> >dropped a Hydrashok on the concrete. Thank you, officer.
> >
> >Three officers showed up for this call. Several people across the street
> >outside of Bitzee Mama's gathered in a small crowd, wondering what was
> >going on. The cops weren't rude, but they were condescending. I was asked
> >why I brought a gun to the library, and why I didn't secure it in my
> >vehicle. I told them I wanted a receipt for my pistol, magazine and
> >ammunition -- kind of had to remind them to give me one. They walked me
> >across the street to a police car, requested my driver's license (which I
> >gave them), and they wrote me a receipt. Hey, the call even got a report
> >number! I might go look it up. One can get copies of police reports for a
> >fee.
> >
> >Well, it didn't take long to find out the library didn't have the book I
> >wanted. When I left, the cops were huddled around a squad car shooting the
> >breeze (or conspiring how to get rid of pesky gunnies). I told them I was
> >through at the library, and I asked for my pistol. I signed for it, and
> >they returned it.
> >
> >We need more armed library patrons. If Glendale insists on having this
> >asinine policy, let's use it regularly. With enough people checking
> >firearms, the PD will get tired of the policy and recommend the council
> >change it.
> >
> >One note: The downtown Glendale library, Velma Teague, is located in
> >Murphy Park. I didn't see any signs prohibiting weapons in the park, but
> >take note that HB 2095 allows cities to limit carry in small parks to CCW
> >holders only. I have a CCW permit.
> >
> >Anyone want to start a Glendale book club?
> >
> >J.D. McKim