Session Start: Mon Mar 01 20:16:28 1999 *** Now talking in #Subs_discuss *** Topic is LDR's Presented by kenji{W}t Please adhere to channel rules and enjoy :))' * vidette{CL} smiles i should *welcome* you all first...thanks for coming Questions can be asked at any time during the discussion however due to time constraints it would be appreciated if personal experiences were not discussed, there will be time afterwards to do this Also the sub play that we all love so much should be kept to a minimum or preferably not displayed at all in channel once the discussion starts * bruno lives vicariously and has no personal experiences lol bruno * wee_foot{Y} giggles If you have a question please indicate so by typing a ? and when you are asked to proceed please do so :) Hopefully we can limit the discussion to an hour to an hour and a half, as we know many of you have Master's or Mistress to attend to *grin* ok...the floor is yours kenji girl :)) thanks vidette Long Distance relationships...LDR. My Disclaimer: these words are only my feelings and having been now in two LDR one internationally and one now in Aus.i have written about the things that have worked for me. Master also means Mistress, she equals he, Dom translates also to Domme. The topic is general and not in depth as there are many variables and would take a month of Sundays to cover. I would also like to narrow my comments to those in a r/l LDR relationship as I feel that is more important at this stage..no I am not saying an online LDR is also not important but the issues sometimes are very different. Why? After having spent time with a Master r/l and having shared the intimacy of that relationship, his touch, his caress, his kiss, it often makes it harder to cope. I can offer you all 2000 suggestions and ideas in coping mechanisms and support but unless there is good communication with your Master then anything I say is useless. Yes the ability to cope is a two way thing in LDR. A Master can be feeling as you do and they also have to have your support as YOU MUST HAVE THEIRS.. how we going ? can i make a comment please? yes vidette{CL} fine, I'm still with you i was just thinking...from my own experience...an online LDR can be an intense experience...but everything changes once you make that first real life connection yes that is one of the variables.everything changes once r/l enters after online okay i will keep going First, words of wisdom from an oldie...to be able to sustain a LDR - KNOW YOURSELF, be in touch with your feelings, make sure you are emotionally strong enough, as some times you will need to draw on an inner strength to cope. Why is this important? Because many times you are going to have to work things through alone. Your Master may get ill, unable to communicate - take this also into consideration as it is part of the reality of LDR. Then ask yourself before committing totally - can my Master give me the support I will need in all areas of my life the same as I am offering him. Talk to him.this is so important.. Yes at first you will have lots of support, the relationship is young and fresh and eager...but what about as months pass and there is no physical contact. You must continue to talk to Your Master about your needs and also ensure he is coping as well. How do we cope...what can we do? Some ideas: First make sure you have a good friend preferably real life that you can talk too about your feelings, if this is not possible find yourself someone online that you can go to. If you are choosing someone online sometimes it is not always good to choose a giggle/chat buddy but someone who you respect and is also living a LDR. Communication is next. How often are you and your master going to communicate. Ask him so that you can set a routine of being together. NOT only online but through telephone contact also. At times you will both need the intimacy of your voices. Set a time at least once a week if possible when you can both talk freely and of your feelings. Saying Goodbye? This is the hard bit....... You have both been together and the moment comes to part....whew this is the time when the body starts to close down..may take a few days to come of cloud nine but it will happen....how do we manage when the old sub drop hits. No one to hold you as you cry..no soft loving words 24 hours a day. A phone call which often makes you feel worse because you don't want him to know how desperate you are feeling. He tells you he is feeling lost without you which makes you feel worse again because you cant be there for him. These are the hard times we encounter....and there is no exact or right answer for any of us. Just go back to step one and two. Talk with a friend, communicate your feelings with your Master and encourage him to do the same with you.....you will both be feeling the pain of isolation. all keeping up * vidette{CL} nods yep Subby hint line: Go to the store and buy yourself something..i always limit this to $2 and it has to be something that reminds me of Master. Yes it is hard in that price range and a little giggle erupts as I pick up a hammer cause I want to hit him at that moment, because I feel so lost.....or the little cuddly fluffy toy with weird eyes or a cactus, thinking where I would like to shove it....LOL. making notes...i have some comments and questions i'll save for the end Make time for yourself........spoil yourself...a wine and a bubble bath.... The pain will pass, it always will, sometimes easier than the last, sometimes harder..but it does. Last from me Friendly advice to absorb or toss out: Do not enter a LDR even if you think you are ready until you think about the following. 1. Do you totally trust heart and soul the Master you are with. 2. Can you both fulfill each others needs when together or apart despite his or your status.....married..work. 3. Can you be alone when others are playing around you. 4. Do you trust his honesty in his devotion to your relationship, can he trust yours. 5. Do you have the strength it takes to live on memories of his touch for months apart. If one of these answers comes up no or maybe....take time out and think very hard about it..as to be collared in a LDR is a hard road to walk. DO NOT accept a collar for the sake of having someone. Be honest in all that you say and do..because one day when the tinsel stops glittering and the newness fades can you still both fullfill each others needs, and not destroy each other with the pains of doubt and complacency. This is also especially hard if either of you go back to a spouse..the doubts can become burdens as to where you or he fits. Okay off my soap box........ * vidette{CL} smiles can i add something? go for it vidette{CL} thanks kenji :) some very balanced and valid points kenji{W}t one thing to keep the energy in a long distant relationship would be for your Master to set tasks and goals for you...and for you to have something to focus on in regard to the relatinship while you're apart please do not get me wrong an LDR can be beautiful and i am blessed in that..but be careful very true vidette my previous Master used to give me things to do at certain times...even the smallest things sara gets them often yes i also have that happening like run a finger down my cheek and think of him at 12.00 *grins* just little things that helped keep it alive yes the communication thing is so important wether through tasks orr by phone, email whatevere * garnet` nods. We meet online, most days. My Dom and I. netmeeting is a wonderful thing for communication...you speak voice over the net for a fraction of the cost i'm forever sending CL little notes...cards...nice things...just to keep the energy going when we're apart yes it is so important to remember that you are not the only one in this relationship But at the same time remember you should expect something total and fulfilling in return i think it's so important to be absolutely clear about what you want before you get involved in a LDR.... there's no point getting involved if you want to change it once it starts this is so important if your Master is married. yes...i guess that sheds a whole new light on things kenji{W}t yes one of the many variables may I make a statement on that kenji{W}t ? it becomes a complex issue in that case One thing we made a point of is not making any sort of permanency until all people involved had met RL. yes tahlia I was always under a misconception that it was harder for me than MY Master as he had a wife and family to go home too but it is just has hard for him to be seperated from me yes tahlia it is..and as i am also in that siuation i can understand that does anybody mind if my Master watches for this talk? no kitten it becomes so complicated when you look at the dynamics of each relationship...Master's/Dom's that have a submissive who fulfils a need they don't get from their relationship with their wives...is that more common with LDR's do you think? thank you kenji :) yes i believe so vidette{CL} not sure it is planned LDR just happened for me vidette{CL} I am sure he could have found a sub closer but we clicked my Master says yes but as i saaid at the beginning i talked generally as the topic can enter many streets depending on status of couples so...again...as submissives we need to be very aware of what we are stepping into in these instances My LDR happened only when I went over and met him. Just for friendship. i have a question.. since i missed the beginning of the talk.. if no one minds I was going to the states anyway, had known him for six or seven years online.. and when we met RL it was .. *click*. We were hooked. yes azure{DR} i always used to say that the distance in my previous relationship (LDR) was a form of bondage greater than what he could ever apply lol thanks kenji * sara{X^L} smiles at garnet i was aware before i entered this relationship that my Master was in a vanilla relationship, i accepted that no hesitation. what are you considering LDRs.. out of town, hundreds of miles away?? any distance and time away from each other azure{DR} * midnight{LS} nods at vidette{CL}'s comment azure can be anywhere * tahlia LDR is 800km ok thanks i varies from person to person azure i live in townsville. my Master in canberra * kenji{W}t is only 300kms away Anything where distance is a factor in the relationship. Physical distance. umm means nothing to me kitten :)) im in the states i am 1,000's CL lives 2 hours north of sydney...i live 2 hours south and we don't see each other all the time...i guess that's a LDR in a way ok With no car and no public transport, across town can be an LDR. i understand.. was just wondering ok over2000 azure yes true granet is time then an LDR, only seeing dom's once a week or month? azure my first Master was in USA and qantas made a bundle i wouldn't consider that really a Long Distance Relationship midnight{LS}...you could live next door and only see them once a month lol If physical distance is a significant factor in the relationship, midnight, I'd call it an LDR. can be midnight{LS} depends on why for myself.. i found LDRs to no longer be fulfilling * vidette{CL} nods to garnet`...yes...the inability to be together so what can we do to ensure that communication between a Master and sub stays at an optimum vidette{CL}, my Master and Mistress are 1 hour and half from me by train, I see them once a week or two weeks to me this is LDR cos travel takes soo long for me and the timing and scheduling. * vidette{CL} waves to Ozzie...you're very priveleged you know lol * garnet` nods to midnight. I'd say that counts. for me i constantly email, just thoughts, call sometimes, not often enough to be a prob but to remind him i am here yes...but that's a bit different to it being a physical incapability of getting there...if you really really wanted to get there you could kenji{W}t I talk to my Master almost everyday both online and on the phone I find this helps tremendously in kitten's case...she couldn't just jump on a train and get to see her Master thanks know what i mean? yes it does.the more contact the better so does sara tahlia Master waves to vidette{CL} yes vidette{CL}, midnight{LS} nods we speak for about 3 hours voice every night kenji{W}t tells of an instance when she was set an email task everyday to do she emailled everyday without fail and looked for responese each day to her efforts none came * sara{X^L} grins to kenji ooooh so she stopped the task My Master i'm afraid does let me down with the communication, he does phone me daily during the week, but i am not a phone person * garnet` nodnods to kenji Master after asking why was told why god i'd love it if CL rang me every day yes kenji, i do not get much in the way of responce either. it hurts and we also spoke of things being a two way committment even in a task you need some acknowledgement * tahlia is definitely a phone person ...lol...can talk up to three hrs * sheeeesh the phone bills :( You must except and get back what you put in very true.. kind of loses the point i cannot vixen`, one because of his work and two because of his partner shit that was to vidette{CL} * amber{LN} smiles to kitten{Ozzie^} lol kitten your Master must be made aware how not having the return in communication to you is painful for you * kitten{Ozzie^} smiles to amber a hello sweet in an email..is not saying a lot to you he just said he is aware of it and is always aware, it drives him crazy, isn't it a shame that i am only now aware of it COMMUNICATION KITTEN AND OZZIE..GET WITH THE PROGRAM...LOL so many let the communication slip by then.,... at one time, i went and visited my then Master.. when i came home, i didnt speak to him for 2 weeks unless i initiated a call... he wasnt even on irc didnt take me long to get rid of the collar... very true kenji, i am pointing this out to Master now yes so many times the Master forgets * vidette{CL} wanders back in with easter eggs for everyone and a fresh * cuppa :) ooooo chokkies * kenji{W}t puts down her valium and has an eggie * vidette{CL} smiles....yummmmmmmmmm to be honest and MASTER knows this, i came here for this trip to walk away, we have since talked and we are staying as one * kenji{W}t hugs kitten..HOORAY * vidette{CL} smiles at kitten{Ozzie^} and Ozzie...good for you *hugs* congrats kitten * kitten{Ozzie^} hugs kenji{W}t and vidette{CL} :) * kenji{W}t hugs Ozzie...HOORAY * amber{LN} hugs kitten{Ozzie^} thank you azure{DR} and to you Ozzie, Sir :)) Ozzie well done Sir I am glad for you kitten{Ozzie^} kitten{Ozzie^} I am happy and releaved for you both * kitten{Ozzie^} is close to tears here you guys are great i think communication is the key to it all * kenji{W}t suggests to kitten..stop gagging him. the gag is for the * sub..LOL yes vidette{CL} it is and kenji{W}t..lol you have to be able to talk talk and talk some more...well...even in a non LDR...lol well all i hope somewhre along the way something has helped it is so easier to do things when one is face to face * vidette{CL} thinks of all the wild and kinky sex they're gonna have * this week lol yes it is kitten{Ozzie^} sometimes tho.. it is harder It's much easier to talk ftf. excuse me plse I have to go.... kenji thanks heaps :))) ........have great wild and kinky sex kitten{Ozzie^} and Ozzie and talk :))))))) If you can let the talk happen rather than the touch, the smell, the taste, the -sound-, the ... very hard over a distance, a cry for help can look so insignificant to one far away but in an LDR ftf is a luxury most of the time i find it harder sometimes... been known to beg Master to get online and talk there and ftf can get off track by the mere physical presence of each other ok i have just made a valid point to my Master may i say it Of course. sure kitten{Ozzie^} :) yes kitten * vidette{CL} pops the last easter egg in her mouth bitch vixen` i wanted it oops vidette{CL} * vixen` coughs ha ha vixen`...you got the blame lol the commitment from me has always been there, the one from him has never wavered nor died, just lacking in getting to me lol as usual *sigh* * vidette{CL} nods a communication breakdown yes sometimes that happens and our Masters need to be aware of it that communication thing can be a tricky and scary thing tho that can happen face to face too yes vidette{CL} yes it is vidette and yes azure also there too * tahlia has a question so i think the point here is one. the sub does need the Master, two he needs to be more aware of passing it on to his sub. i know there's times when i don't want to burden CL with something...but he says he'd be upset with me if i didn't...that i belong to Him and He needs to know what's going on Go ahead, tahlia. exactly vidette ditto vidette does anyone find them self insecure at times being so far away and thinking silly things like their Master may find another sub closer ? oh yes tahlia lol all the time YES! lol i get too quiet.. Master says he can feel the vibrations from my brain working.. then demands to know what is making it spin so fast yes tahlia very much so tahlia. no...but i've battled other insecurities yes Yes yes yes yes yes YES YES YES! ok I take that as majority yes :) * vidette{CL} smiles i just like to be different lol My Master has just shown me an email from a sub who is collared and wants to meet him lol tahlia Kenji{W}t is 10 years older than Wolfie and despite age not being an issue.i worry he might find someone younger and super looking how is that to make me feel, but anger at that sub And: why does he bother with me? Who am I that he's willing to spend so much energy on me? or super body * garnet` nods to kitten. that's always a problem with the easy accessibility these days...ie. email and irc etc yes garnet that was aimed at kitten :) no kitten be complimented in the fact Ozzie wants you sometimes there is a blatant disregard for collars garnet, you are special and that is why he wishes to spend energy on you, as you are special !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think we all have to have faith in that too kenji{W}t, that they want US Who am I that he's willing to spend so much time, and patience, and energy, and money, getting no return but hazy promises that we'll try to get there in September, and the possibility that he might get a chance to move to be with me one day... yes vidette{CL}, thats true, but it does make you wonder what is going on with the trust honesty in a relationship kitten by the fact of Him showing you ...says it all..you should feel secure that your Master is showing you that it is you He wishes well it pisses me off too...not that i feel insecure about him...but that a sub would have the audacity to do it...i certainly wouldn't yes that gets back to my statement before garnet` smiles at midnight. "I know that intellectually. But these are insecurities that I have.. that may be common to most of us. Maybe? 4. Do you trust his honesty in his devotion to your relationship, can he trust yours. yes garnet midnight{LS} believes if you say it long enough, it becomes true, affirmations are majic and create reality i wonder that with my Master and we are 24/7.... he is so ... uhmm hot and sexy.. why the heck did he chose me? i think that all comes back to self esteem yes it does vidette{CL} yes our own litlle insecurities keep lifting there head all the time...but be complimented in the fact your Master chose YOU midnight{LS} asks a question to all... why wouldnt someone spend time and energy on you? You are a unique human being with a great gift oh i am.. but at times.. things sneaks out exactly kenji{W}t and the gift of submission is the greatest gift you can give <`vixen> and a warm and loving nature garnet` smiles at midnight. "But we are all unique human beings, and in all modesty, most subs have the gift we have. Not identical ones, but hey." when the communication is missing thats when the insecurities arise god kenji{W}t...that's the comment that got me in the shit on the mailing list lol yes it does kitten..but it will not happen again will it both of you yep but its so true though vidette{CL} So why -shouldn't- Bison find a sub in Indiana or neighbouring states who is also intelligent, pretty, geekish, introvert... all the attributes he likes in me. communication is the key to any relationship, bdsm or vanilla, family or boss... If you dont have communication you dont have a relatinship because *you* belong to Him already garnet` Surely there's a sub in Indiana and environs who could also suit him.. he could look for her... we will try not to let it garnet` smiles at vidette. "And besides, he could be saying the same about me." he likes all the things that make *you* who you are vidette{CL} smiles at garnet`...see you know you belong to Him without a doubt I have an answer to it. I like -him-. I've known him for seven years, maintained a platonic friendship with him for that long. kenji{W}t DCC's kitten and Ozzie a gold star sticker each cause they are working hard at things So I _know_ he and I are compatible, at the base. I've lost a lot of friendships over the last seven years. But not his. * kitten{Ozzie^} smiles to kenji{W}t okay are there any other questions anybody i used to think that my former Master would be able to find a sub at the drop of a hat...he's got everythign going for him...gorgeous...ambitious...very centred...genuinely likeable etc.... but he chose me thousands but havent got time cos they tangent everywhere else <`vixen> no only an observation that it is wonderful we have such warm strong support amongst us cause i think it may be time we went and TALKED to our Masters and he still...6 months down the track hasn't replaced me it takes a lot of energy to create that special place Bison tells me that he's had a lot of subs who really needed therapy rather than a master. He says one of the things he likes about me is that I'm a whole person. Not perfect, but .. . i know what you mean garnet` * kenji{W}t nods <`vixen> who is perfect garnet` *s* thanks for tonight kenji{W}t *hugs* * garnet` nods to vidette about the special place. well done kenji :)) Thanks kenji thank you kenji{W}t Session Close: Mon Mar 01 22:29:12 1999