Session Start: Mon Feb 08 20:03:04 1999
*** Now talking in #Subs_discuss
*** ChanOP (service@austnet.org) has joined #Subs_discuss
*** ChanOP sets mode: +o ChanOP
*** ChanOP changes topic to 'Next discussion TONIGHT Monday, 
8 Feb. 9pm AEST...subs and switches only...Topic:  COMMUNICATION
presented by destinyBP and vidette{CL}.  Please adhere to channel 
rules and enjoy :))'
*** ChanOP sets mode: +nt
<sara{X^L}> ok we ready to post the rules?
* barak{Ras} nods nods
<sara{X^L}>  Questions can be asked at any time during the 
discussion however due to time constraints it would be appreciated 
if personal experiences were not discussed, there will be time 
afterwards to do this
<sara{X^L}> .
<sara{X^L}> Also the sub play that we all love so much should be 
kept to a minimum or preferably not displayed at all in channel 
once the discussion starts
<sara{X^L}> .
<sara{X^L}> If you have a question please indicate so by typing a ? 
and when you are asked to proceed please do so :)
<sara{X^L}> [20:54] <vidette{CL}> Hopefully we can limit the 
discussion to an hour to an hour and a half, as we know many of 
you have Master's or Mistress to attend to *grin*
<sara{X^L}> oops
<sara{X^L}> heheh
<barak{Ras}> lol
<barak{Ras}> ?
<sara{X^L}> dont ask
* barak{Ras} is jus filling in for SirRon *grin*
<vidette{CL}> ok...can you give me a wee minute please ?
<sara{X^L}> yes vidette
<kitten{Ozzie^}> shit i better reboot, brb
<vidette{CL}> ok...will wait for kitten
* destinyBP smiles at vidette...
* vidette{CL} winks at destiny..thanks
<vidette{CL}> First of all...welcome everyone...good to see you 
here again this week :))
<vidette{CL}> Tonight's topic is communication as you know
<vidette{CL}> There are various aspects of communication that i'll 
raise.
<vidette{CL}> At the end of each segment, discussion is encouraged.
I'll indicate when we get to those points.
<vidette{CL}> One other thing before we begin...
<vidette{CL}> I felt there was a little confusion at the end of 
last week's discussion as to who was interested in taking the next 
discussion...
<vidette{CL}> i think maybe one idea as to how to avoid this would 
be for those who are interested in taking a discussion
<vidette{CL}> to put forward an outline to either totty, sara or 
myself and we can then plan it in advance
<vidette{CL}> How do people feel about this?
* belara nods in agreement
* barak{Ras} is laready planning his outline
* destinyBP thinks it is a great idea :)
<vidette{CL}> anyone else got any objections?
<sara{X^L}> good idea vidette
<vidette{CL}> ok...i think that's the way we'll go then :)
<vidette{CL}> let's begin :)
<vidette{CL}> .
<vidette{CL}> Trust and communication are the keys to a successful 
relationship. I believe much more communication is required in a D/s 
relationship than in a normal vanilla relationship....there's more to 
take into consideration.
<vidette{CL}> The health of the relationship hinges on both side's 
ability to communicate effectively, not only their dissatisfaction 
and disappointments, but also their pleasure and satisfaction.
<vidette{CL}> It's also important to communicate things that may be 
an issue for you - either past abuse, fears, phobias and uncertainties. 
Never expect your Dom/me to be a mind-reader, although *grins* 
some will tell you they know you better than you know yourself.
<vidette{CL}> The only way to get your needs met, is to communicate 
them.
<vidette{CL}> Communicating effectively is more than just talking. 
You have to be able to voice your concerns, hopes, needs, dreams, 
disappointments, and hurts as well as all the positive emotions you 
so willingly share.
<vidette{CL}> Remember it's also *listening* to what is said 
and the way it's said. Gestures, facial expressions and body 
language often say more than words. Listen to what is behind the 
words. Don't judge or ridicule. Just listen.
* vidette{CL} smiles at kitten..wb
<kitten{Ozzie^}> :)
<vidette{CL}> Communication can be difficult for some, but it can 
be done little by little if that works better for you. You give a 
little...build a little more trust...give a little more...build more 
trust...brick by brick. Trust = Respect = Communication = Trust
and so it goes on and on.
* lilly bounces in
<vidette{CL}> If your partner isn't prepared to listen to what you 
have to say...your questions, your concerns, your wants and needs...
perhaps it's time to reconsider the relationship.
<vidette{CL}> .
<vidette{CL}> Any questions or comments at this point?
<barak{Ras}> ?
<vidette{CL}> yep barak?
<belara> ?
<barak{Ras}> just wanted to say that i have found that the more 
you talk and listen..the better it gets :))
* vidette{CL} smiles...i second that barak
* sara{X^L} smiles to barak
<vidette{CL}> yes belara?
<belara> For me the incread neccessary communication of a BDSM 
relationship is one of the joys of the relationship
<belara> i live the exploration that comes with increased 
communciation :-)
<vidette{CL}> yes...it's something i always found lacking in 
previous relationships
<belara> love
<belara> thanks
<vidette{CL}> anyone else?
<vidette{CL}> ok...
<vidette{CL}> Another key communications and safety tool is a 
contract (also known as a slave contract), which bears a vague 
resemblance to a prenuptial agreement. D/s'ers often prepare formal 
written agreements that specify the nature of the prospective D/s 
relationship and delineate the guidelines partners will observe.
<vidette{CL}> These agreements are meticulously negotiated by both 
partners in a nonerotic context, so that power roles do not bias 
judgment. Contracts typically stipulate limits and give concrete 
expression to each partner's expectations and commitments.
<vidette{CL}> .
<vidette{CL}> Does anyone here have any experience of contracts that 
they'd like to share?
<barak{Ras}> ?
<vidette{CL}> yes barak{Ras} :)
<barak{Ras}> gee i am talking alot tonight....
<vidette{CL}> good on you :)
<sara{X^L}> ?
<barak{Ras}> but i have just come through the whole negotiation 
thing with a contract...
<vidette{CL}> can you share some of that with us barak{Ras}?
<barak{Ras}> and i found that the more we talked about it and 
discussed what we both wanted, the more we got to know each other
what we liked, and didn't like...
<barak{Ras}> and what we would be willing to go through to make 
the relationship work...
<vidette{CL}> so you think it's helped open the pathways of 
communication between you both then?
<barak{Ras}> i think it helped to cement alot of the things we 
felt about both each other and the relationship
<barak{Ras}> *nods* yes, most definately vidette{CL}
* vidette{CL} nods at sara :)
<vidette{CL}> sara?
<sara{X^L}> ok...have had a relationship under a contract....yes 
it worked at the start..just wanted to say...just because both 
parties have sat down and worked this thing out...it still might 
fail..they work for some but not all
<vidette{CL}> yes...i've heard similar stories
<barak{Ras}> ?
<vidette{CL}> yes barak{Ras}
<barak{Ras}> it is possible that it wont work out, but we have 
tried to look at that sort of thing by putting in the contract 
that we will reveiw it regularly...so we can encompass changes 
in the both of us
<vidette{CL}> that's a good idea bara
<vidette{CL}> barak even
<vidette{CL}> can i ask you a question barak?
<barak{Ras}> *nods* sure :)
<vidette{CL}> do you think it's necessary to *sign* the contract
or is the process itself enough?
<barak{Ras}> well, i think the process in and of itself is enough
sure you can sign the contract...but i think that the actual process 
is the important part
* vidette{CL} nods
* destinyBP never signed her contract with Bp...it is written on 
her heart..the paper copy is just "process"
* vidette{CL} nods...i can understand that :)
<vidette{CL}> Does anyone else have anything to say about contracts?
* vidette{CL} smiles and welcomes totty
<kitten{Ozzie^}> no, my contract is verbal, that it
<vidette{CL}> well..moving along then...
<vidette{CL}> Another good method of communication is the keeping 
of a journal. It's can be a good way of keeping a record of your
journey, of expressing thoughts that either concern you or excite 
you as they come to mind, of recording the answers and solutions to 
your questions, of expressing desires and fantasies that perhaps you're 
too shy to express verbally to your partner. This journal should be 
shared by your Dom/me regularly.
<destinyBP> !
<vidette{CL}> destinyBP :)...yes?
<destinyBP> just for the record...I find a journal (as well as 
email sent to Master, even tho we live together)..is an excellent 
way to say things that are embarassing or difficult to say face to 
face.....particularly useful if there is something you REALLY need 
to say, but can't do it irl..
<vidette{CL}> oh yes...i agree...i often send epic sagas to CL...i 
find it easier to put down in writing my deepest feelings...perhaps 
it gives me time to think them out clearly
<vidette{CL}> How do others feel about journals?  
* cheekybren sits down quietly
<sara{X^L}> they are an exellent tool of expression vidette
<kitten{Ozzie^}> i do a journal and when Master and i meet he 
reads it
<belara> journals are a great idea... if i was *made* to do it... 
i'm quite hopeless otherwise
* totty writes thesis type things to Master too :)
<vidette{CL}> i'm supposed to keep one...and i do write in it 
occasionally...and he reads it occasionally *grins*
<barak{Ras}> i think that a journal is a great idea...tho mine 
usually end up being of novel size proportions
<vidette{CL}> i'm more of an email girl myself lol
<kitten{Ozzie^}> i do emails also vidette{CL} :)
<belara> yes... emails are better for me
<vidette{CL}> what on earth did we do before the net??? lol
<belara> talk ??? :-)
<totty> have a life?
<sara{X^L}> hehehe
<kitten{Ozzie^}> wrote letters..lol
<vidette{CL}> got divorced
<vidette{CL}> lol
<barak{Ras}> be right back
<totty> lol
<vidette{CL}> oh well....
<vidette{CL}> Body language is vital to good communication as 
well and quite often says more than the words we speak. Also the 
way you hold yourself...present yourself...communicates quite 
clearly who you are.
<vidette{CL}> CrimsonLord often reminisces of the day we first 
met. His view of that day is quite remarkable and not something 
that i was at all aware of at the time. He says he saw me sitting 
on a wall, legs crossed but open. He says this was me showing him 
what i had to offer, but not giving it away freely *grins*.
<cheekybren> heheheh
<vidette{CL}> He says my back was straight and my head held high 
which showed him that i was strong and confident. When i talked to 
him, i spoke with confidence and looked him in the eye. He knew 
from this that my self-esteem was high and that he had met someone 
he could communicate with equally.
<vidette{CL}> That's just one example of body language.  Other 
examples could be body language in a scene...body language if 
you're in an uncomfortable situation...upset about something etc.
<vidette{CL}> Any questions or comments here?
<sara{X^L}> yes vidette....
<vidette{CL}> yes sara?
* sea_urchin will be back soon
<sara{X^L}> usually if you are being completely honest to your 
Dom/me your body language will more often than not give you away...
<sara{X^L}> are not even
* destinyBP nods..yeah..that is true...BP can tell if I'm not 
feeling well, just by the way I stand or move..
<sara{X^L}> yes destiny
* vidette{CL} nods
<vidette{CL}> ok...
<vidette{CL}> Safewords are essential in good communication in 
a play situation. Actually, they are not only useful in a play 
situation, but also if you are discussing a painful or difficult 
issue that you really need some time out on. Safeword!!
<vidette{CL}> Some will say they don't need or use safewords. 
I am one of those. I don't advocate that this is how it should 
be for everyone. I believe strongly in safewords when just starting 
out with a partner. I don't use them because my partner knows 
me well. He has a clear understanding of my limits and is very 
aware of my body language and the sounds i make when i can't 
verbalise.
<vidette{CL}> I trust him to the point where i don't need a 
safeword. But that trust has been developed over a period of 
time and experience. You can't know someone that intimately to 
begin with. So always have a safeword negotiated. Some may disagree 
with my thoughts on this.
<destinyBP> !
<vidette{CL}> yes destinyBP?
<destinyBP> I just wanted to add....that a safeword is a very 
valuable communication tool in new relationships...because until 
you know each other well enough to read your Dom/me's body language,
or them to read yours, it can be the easiest way to say 
"Hold up...this is going wrong"
* vidette{CL} nod nods...so important
<vidette{CL}> Any other thoughts on this?
<totty> i agree with you both *kiss*
<vidette{CL}> lol totty
<treasure{ROC}> ?
<vidette{CL}> yes treasure{ROC}? :)
<treasure{ROC}> do you believe it is better for new relationships 
to start off with one safeword, ot to have a couple, one to slow 
it down and another to stop it completely?
<vidette{CL}> maybe there are some more experienced people here 
that could comment on that??
<totty> !
<vidette{CL}> yep totty?
* destinyBP found that starting out..it was easier to have several 
words for difference situations..
* totty has back and red, back for change or slow down and red for 
stop
<vidette{CL}> it makes sense to have several
<vidette{CL}> i don't have any...so it's hard for me to comment
<totty> and so far Master has always been able to read my body 
language and i havent used them
<totty> but they are there for me if i need them
<treasure{ROC}> I was just curious about what others have, I have 
3, but have never had the cause to use them :)
<vidette{CL}> That's a valid point that you've both brought up...
* destinyBP has two...China for slow down..and Japan for stop :)
* vidette{CL} makes notes to discuss with CL :)
<vidette{CL}> it's good to have them there, even if you don't need
 to use them
* destinyBP chuckles..Bp just reminded her of her safewords....
I haven't known what they were for AGES..cause it just never 
came up :)
<vidette{CL}> This next part is purely dependent on the 
individuals and the structure of their relationships...
<vidette{CL}> There are other aspects of D/s communication 
that take on a deeper level of the D/s dynamic. This purely 
depends on the nature of your relationship. Some of them are: 
Always maintaining eye contact with your Dom/me when they are 
speaking to you. At other times, your eyes must be lowered. 
You should never *close* your body to them. This means no 
arms crossed in front of you, legs never crossed etc.
<vidette{CL}> and i'm sure there are many others...thinking 
back to my original training stuff
<vidette{CL}> In some instances, your right to speech may be 
taken away. If your Dom/me is going to take this right away 
from you, you must negotiate a sign that you need to speak 
freely to ask a question or request some urgent attention...
whatever. If your relationship is strict in this manner, or 
if you are in a training situation, you should always have 
free speech time at the end of your day or session or whatever
 the case may be.
<vidette{CL}> Others may have more to add here....anyone?
<totty> ummmmmm my basic rule
<totty> just do as you are told :))
<cheekybren> hehehe
* totty chuckles
* cheekybren swats totty
<vidette{CL}> Communication within the community is important 
as well. While communication is essential between partners - 
communication with others in your community is vital to growth 
and understanding in relation to your submission.
<vidette{CL}> Life is about feedback and we all turn to 
friends, family and even acquaintances to get a better idea 
of what our alternatives are in *any* situation. Being in this 
lifestyle is no different. And being able to speak freely and 
enjoy others face-to-face or screen-to-screen has altered the 
structure of the bdsm community completely. Get to know others...
listen, learn and exchange.
<vidette{CL}> How do we feel about the level of communication 
in this community?  Or this type of forum for example?
<vidette{CL}> What works best for you?  The channel?  Lists? 
Discussions?  Face-to-face contact?
<cheekybren> face to face for me :)
<totty> depends on the relationship :)
* destinyBP likes them all....*smiles* but doesn't care much for 
lists...*shrugs*
<vidette{CL}> i feel a bit the same about lists atm destiny :\
<vidette{CL}> in general...i find knowing that i have friends 
in the community i can turn to or just talk with is the greatest 
feeling
<treasure{ROC}> I find that here works best for me... I tend not 
to worry so much about what people think of me... face to face I 
tend to clam up, afraid that people will think what I have to say 
is not of any use... but am working on it
<vidette{CL}> but i worry that the people who would benefit most 
from this type of communication, don't tend to participate at all
* cheekybren nods
* destinyBP smiles at vidette..and nods in agreement with 
treasure..yes..there is something to be said for the annonimity 
factor that online interaction gives.. 
* totty grumbles
<destinyBP> well treas..I for one can tell you..TALK AWAY irl...
I love to hear what you have to say :))
<treasure{ROC}> although i admit to not even saying much during 
discussions too :)
<treasure{ROC}> thanks destinyBP :)
* vidette{CL} smiles...well you've done well tonight then 
treasure{ROC}
<totty> treasure{ROC} from what i have read on your posts you 
have much to contribute
<vidette{CL}> oops there goes destiny lol
<vidette{CL}> i agree
<vidette{CL}> maybe that's just a self-confidence thing 
treasure{ROC} :)
<vidette{CL}> wb destinyBP :)
<destinyBP> rehi's all :)
<Brinlarr> greetings
* treasure{ROC} nods... "I know it is vidette{CL}... 
something I have a lot of problem overcoming
<Brinlarr> in that case be well :)
<treasure{ROC}> wb destinyBP  *huggles*
<totty> be well Brinlarr :)
* destinyBP huggles tres....
<vidette{CL}> i think being aware that it is a problem is a 
huge step in overcoming it then...good for you :)
<vidette{CL}> Well....in conclusion...
<vidette{CL}> Communication is a learning process and it's a 
never ending process. To master the art of good communication 
and to encourage communication, will hopefully lead to a rich 
and fulfilling relationship with your partner, that will thrive
 in your knowledge of each other's deepest fears, dreams, hopes
 and desires.
* vidette{CL} bows and throws open the floor for discussion :)
* destinyBP applauds vidette...
<vidette{CL}> Thank you for your time everyone...does anyone have 
anything to add?
<kitten{Ozzie^}> i think we all need to communicate more, with most
 of us, it is a lack of self confidence
* destinyBP agrees with kitten..
<vidette{CL}> yes...agreed kitten...it takes some skill to 
communicate well
<vidette{CL}> i know i sit on things for weeks and weeks because 
i'm afraid of what kind of reaction i'll get
<treasure{ROC}> ummmmmm....   could someone send me a complete 
log of this later please... sorry i was late and missed the 
first part
<kitten{Ozzie^}> yes and also to get the exact message across 
that you want put, instead of some garbled message that nobody 
not even yourself can understand
<vidette{CL}> of course treasure :)
<destinyBP> but as a communication major..I'd like to point out 
that one MAJOR factor in how well we communicate, depends on how 
well we LISTEN..
<fritz{M^L> good evening lovely people
* vidette{CL} nods
<cheekybren> i think often some ppl should 'hold back' 
from making 
comments to 'allow' those shyer ppl some input
<kitten{Ozzie^}> hi ya fritz{M^L
<treasure{ROC}> i sit on things for weeks and weeks too 
vidette{CL},
but mostly because i don't know how to communicate well, never 
sure of how to discuss feelings
<vidette{CL}> hi fritz{M^L :)  You've come in on the tail end
<treasure{ROC}> thanks vidette{CL} :))
<fritz{M^L> hy, kitten
<vidette{CL}> ask CL...i'm a ponderer...and he knows when i'm 
pondering on something lol
<fritz{M^L> hello vidette, Milady sends her regards
* vidette{CL} smiles and to her as well fritz{M^L
<fritz{M^L> thank you, i'll pass on the messsage 
<vidette{CL}> yes cheekybren...from your comment before...it 
would be nice to hear from the shier people...it's amazing how 
far one positive reaction can go to something you've said...
<vidette{CL}> and then...how damaging one negative reaction can 
be also
* belara has been working at keeping her mouth shut !
<vidette{CL}> lol..belara
* belara grins
<cheekybren> thats when its up to those others to realise 
when someone has 'delurked' and support them :)  easier said 
than done
<vidette{CL}> this is the place to open it belara...go for it !!
<vidette{CL}> yes...i guess it depends on the environment 
tho cheekybren
<vidette{CL}> i think you need to find the forum for 
communication that works best for you
<vidette{CL}> for example...i love talking this way...discussing 
intelligently with likeminded people...listening to what others 
have to say
<vidette{CL}> i don't find that on the list tho
<vidette{CL}> just my own opinion there :)
* gypsyrose{N} has to agree with vidette{CL} on that one
<fritz{M^L}> because people have more time to read what they 
see
<treasure{ROC}> i tend to find that by the time i get around to 
looking at the list, it's days old :)
<belara> i like this forum far better
<kitten{Ozzie^}> yes me too, i like throwing my thoughts bit 
by bit opening other avenues and expanding on that
<sara{X^L}> that was the same with sara treas
<fritz{M^L}> but than again everyone communicates different
<treasure{ROC}> i still suffer from the problem though, of 
tossing my 2c worth into the ring even in a place like this
<fritz{M^L}> some visual some audio
<vidette{CL}> yes...that's right...i think just find the right 
way for *you*
<belara> i feel more confident expressing myself here than on 
the list
<vidette{CL}> well as far as i'm concerned...it's good to toss 
your 2c worth in...and one would hope that those listening would 
respect your opinion
* treasure{ROC} nods in agreement with belara
<vidette{CL}> oh yes...agreed
* cheekybren nods with belara
<cheekybren> i think the lists are far too hierachial  - thats 
my 2c worth!
<vidette{CL}> not all cheekybren
<belara> don't worry about flames or super intelligent people 
writing amzing responses belittling everyhting i have said :-)
<vidette{CL}> i recently joined the Latches list...and so far i 
have found it supportive, encouraging, enlightening...all good 
things :)
<fritz{M^L}> i sent 5 min with Milady on ausbdsm channel 
yesterday and we left in discussed
<treasure{ROC}> Latches list?
<kitten{Ozzie^}> geezus i am too scared to write to a list, i 
would be totally demoralised by recieving a flame
<wee_foot{Y}> realy fritz{M^L}???/
<vidette{CL}> well that's how i felt about the ausbdsm list...
but that's another story lol
<fritz{M^L}> only three people were communicating and the rest 
where lurking
<vidette{CL}> it's an American list treasure...for fem subs only
<vidette{CL}> oh..and fem subs in r/l relationships :)
<vidette{CL}> that happens in the channel sometimes fritz...
depends on the time of day and who's in there
<treasure{ROC}> do they have restrictions on who can join 
vidette{CL}?
<vidette{CL}> they do treasure...it's quite an ordeal to join 
actually lol
<fritz{M^L}> but a lot of small talk about nothing and a lot 
of brats
<vidette{CL}> i can give you the details if you like...i think 
it's well worth the effort :)
<treasure{ROC}> thanks would like that vidette{CL} :)
<vidette{CL}> np :)
<kitten{Ozzie^}> fritz{M^L}, i was there at the time and i 
think i am one of the brats
<fritz{M^L}> by the way is the disscussion about communication ?
<gypsyrose{N}> lol kitten{Ozzie^}
<fritz{M^L}> thank you, i noticed
* vidette{CL} chuckles...that'd be right kitten{Ozzie^}
<kitten{Ozzie^}> i am not always like that, but it is also a room 
for laying round, what else can one do when nobody talks?
<treasure{ROC}> i could believe that kitten{Ozzie^}  :))
<fritz{M^L}> different strokes for different foks
<kitten{Ozzie^}> ooops playing around
<vidette{CL}> that's why i like these spin off channels for 
discussion...SirB's on a sunday night and now this one which 
came about from SirB's :)
<kitten{Ozzie^}> i am not backward in owning up fritz{M^L}
<fritz{M^L}> i think You had it right the first time kitten
<kitten{Ozzie^}> :|
<vidette{CL}> well...my Master is sick and sitting up waiting 
for some TLC...
<kitten{Ozzie^}> excuse me ppl but i am leaving
<vidette{CL}> do we have any offers for next week? :)
<kitten{Ozzie^}> bye
<sara{X^L}> kitten
<fritz{M^L}> give him my regards please vidette
<totty> thank you again vidette{CL} ;)
<vidette{CL}> you're all quite welcome :)
<treasure{ROC}> thanks vidette{CL} :))
<vidette{CL}> will do fritz{M^L} :)
<wee_foot{Y}> maybe something along the lines of medical care 
and how to deal with doctors????????
<wee_foot{Y}> that kind of stuff
<treasure{ROC}> will be off now... take care all :))
* wee_foot{Y} thros in a sugestion
<vidette{CL}> treasure...i may not get this to you tonight, but 
will send it tomorrow, ok?
<vidette{CL}> are you offering wee_foot{Y}? :)
<wee_foot{Y}> its just an idea, i wouldn't know how to go 
about it tho
<belara> good night all.. love youse all !
<vidette{CL}> well...research...talk to people...would you like 
to give it a go?
<wee_foot{Y}> i have agood doc, but that's just me, he knows 
i'm into D/s, but it can be hard for others to ask or enquire 
about stuff
<wee_foot{Y}> let me think about it ok ? :0
<vidette{CL}> night belara *hugs*
<wee_foot{Y}> :)
<vidette{CL}> lol
<wee_foot{Y}> even
<vidette{CL}> ok...but we've only a got a week between drinks
<vidette{CL}> i'll hound ppl in the channel during the week :)))
* totty smiles and puts on her ear muffs
<vidette{CL}> lol
* vidette{CL} taps her crop against her leg
<totty> oooooerrrrrrrr
<vidette{CL}> oooo...that's why too dommy lol
<cheekybren> mmmmm
<vidette{CL}> way too even
<vidette{CL}> ok...hopefully we'll sort something out during 
the week
<vidette{CL}> do you mind if i dash off now...sick Master to 
attend to :(
<fritz{M^L}> bye vidette
<totty> nini vidette{CL} *hugs* 
<vidette{CL}> thanks again everyone for your participation...it's 
been great :))
Session Close: Mon Feb 08 22:25:05 1999