Interviewed by Brian Disagree

Who is who, what do you do and how old are you?

Pat: I’m Pat, I play drums and I get sick.
Justin: I’m Justin Sane, I play guitar and sing and I’m nineteen.
Chris: I’m Chris, I play guitar. I’m nineteen and I get sicker than Pat.
Pat: We have Cock who’s in the band too...
Justin: But, she’s really sick right now...
Pat: But, she’s really sick, so she’s not here.

Your new record “Die For Your Government” which happens to be your first full length record is on New Red Archives, How did you guys hook up with one of the best punk rock labels in North America?

Justin: Wow...
Pat: Wow...You gotta tell Nicky that...
Justin: Well, we have these pictures of Nicky fucking with this really evil corporation head. So, we told him that we’re going to ruin him in the punk rock industry if we release these pictures of him fucking with this corporate head... I won’t mention who but this particular person he’s from Exxon. So, we told Nicky that we were going to blackmail him, so he better put out a record for us.

And, that’s how it happened?

Justin: Yep.
Pat: Actually, we have a friend who knows Nicky at New Red and he gave him our tape, so it’s not nearly that...

You’ve toured alot before this current tour and I was just wondering what differences do you see with the western punk scene and the eastern punk scene? I read this in MRR and I just wanted to say it over again...

Justin: The thing is in MR&R it really wasn’t about that... I mean the kids on the west coast and east coast are great, there isn’t much difference between the kids... But, there’s a difference with clubs and stuff, alot of the clubs on the west coast are bigger and in that idea alot more kids come out to the shows, well that isn’t true either...

Do you think it’s more corporate?

Justin: Honestly, I don’t know.
Pat: Your just trying not to get into a fight, aren’t ya?
Justin: Yeah, I am...
Pat: There’s definitely a difference between the kids on the east coast and the kids on the west coast. Not neccesarily a good difference, not necessarily a bad difference... But, there is a difference. How’s that for a diplomatic answer?
Justin: We don’t like any more then the other though, you know.
Pat: The cities in the NE are closer though which is alot better to play.
Justin: Right, I agree.
Pat: <laugh> How’s that for an answer? Chris, what do you think about that one?
Chris: This is my first tour, I like every city. I have no problem with any of the cities. West coast, East coast... it’s all the same to me.

How’s this tour going?

Justin: Great, we’re in Seattle... It’s alot of fun.
Pat: Until about two years ago, err until about two days ago. It seems like two years ago...  We had to drive 24 hours to getall so we’re all sick.

Was it worth it?

Pat: Oh yeah... Seattle’s alot of fun.
Justin: Fuck yeah! Seattle's great.
Pat: The kids were really cool...
Justin: But, yeah it was definitely a long drive...
Chris: And, half of us were dying...
Justin: We're all sick, so...
Pat: So, that's the theme for this interview, is that we're all sick. So, we're going to get that into every question you ask us, we're going to put in we're sick, okay.

Okay.

Justin: He's like alright. <laugh>

I have autism, so it's kind-of hard for me to talk.

Justin: No, that's fine, you're doing very good...

Last summer in August you played in Vancouver, Canada with Submission Hold and DBS and I noticed a ton of teenage girls chasing after you, like you were U2 or something, asking for your autographs... I was just curious if this happened elsewhere and what do you think of this?

Justin: Well, the thing is, we have been asked to open for U2.
Have you really?

Justin: Yeah.

Seriously?

Pat: No, he's lying... <chuckle>
Justin: The kids are great everywhere you go...
Chris: <laugh>
Justin: It's true...  You always meet really nice kids... Some kids are kind of young or whatever, they want your autograph or something. We just tell them that we just think of ourselves as kids as well and nobody special so, we hate to give our autographs you know but... If kids really want them we'll swap autographs, we'll give them one and make them give us one, and we make it fun.
Pat: My issue with the autographs is that if your asking someone for their autograph it means  they're cooler then you are... And, my theory on what's going on is that what we do is that we're all sort of the same thing, except we have a louder voice because we have microphones, so if they get an autograph from us we get one from them too. It makes everybody more on the same plane. Cause, I have a whole notebook here of autographs from kids.

Do you seriously? <totally surprised>

Justin and Pat: Yeah.
No way!

Justin and Pat: Yeah.
Pat: Whenever, a kid asks me for an autograph...
Justin: Because, we definetly not cooler than anybody...

<We are now looking at his autograph that he pulled out!>

Pat: There's Adam from Erie and Jenny and that's Big Lee and the Kill Kill Gangstas they're from Nashville, man they are insane kids. That kid didn't tell me where he was from but I got him. Two other kids that I can't read their autographs that was at the Atomic Cafe.

That's great.

Pat: Okay, alright... I was all excited, I was reading through this today about all the kids I got autographs from I was loving it, it was great. I'm sorry, I get excited over little things.

You seem to hate the rich, could you explain why this is? And, have you had bad experiences with people who are rich in the past? And, also what would you classify a typical rich person?

Justin: Well... The whole issue with "Kill The Rich" is the idea that basically we’re just really a seriously anti-war band and the way we see is that the rich... But the idea is that the rich benefit greatly off of wars, when we’re talking about the rich we’re talking about people who run corporations and people who influence the government and the way that they make alot of money off these wars is by selling war goods and the idea that they use nationalism to divide poor people who will fight in their wars, that’s why we’re called Anti-Flag. So when we say Kill the Rich, it’s almost kind of like it doesn’t make any sense for poor people to go out and slaughter each other and they gain nothing in the end except some broken hearts and the rich make alot of money so if you’re gonna kill somebody you may as well kill a rich fucking whore.

Punk has been around for a hell of a long time, do you think it’s made this world a better place to live and how?

Justin: Absolutely.
Pat: Definetly.  We were just talking about this with Lonnie from The Bristles tonight, a Seattle band. Err, The other night it wasn’t tonight. There are alot of kids who I know and who are out there and they’re completely fucked up and they find a Black Flag record and their lives seem to get straightened out a little bit so I think that’s definetly a positive thing.
Justin: Yeah, I think it gives kids a positive direction and some positive ideas and you know it gave me a lot of positive ideas when I was young and I feel like I really benefited from them and it gave me alot of focus on maybe some good things I could do and yeah I think it’s a great thing.
Pat: He said it, exactly...

Besides playing Punk Rock, burning the American flag and educating people with your music, what else do you do to make this cesspool of an earth a better place to live?

Justin: Well, I like to go to the beach with my girlfriend and my dog and we talk about things that make us very happy and it sends out a positive vibe, it’s a really good thing...
Pat: I haven’t done anything positive in the last two months, I’ve been sitting in a van doing nothing other than playing Punk Rock.
Justin: But, Chris is the corporate head at Little Ceasar’s... <laugh>

Are you the manager? <confused>

Chris: No, I’m the corporate head...

Ahh, corporate head, okay.

Justin: So, he makes the world a better place by making pizzas.

I’ve noticed a couple punks who go to shows n Vancouver, Canada who have no idea what punk is about. Do you think this is a big problem in the scene and how do you think we can show them that ignorance is not cool?

Justin: Well yeah, I mean it’s a drag cause alot of kids they see punks on CHiPs, -which actually we just saw an episode of CHiPs the other day with punks on it, which was really funny... But they do  see punks on CHiPs and they think well those guys look cool and then they get a mohawk and they decide to  go to punk shows and they beat the fuck out of people and that’s really fucked up. The thing is alot of kids get into punk for the wrong reasons but I think after they hang out and they’re around for a while they realize there is alot more to it.  I’ve seen alot of kids who came into punk with no idea what it was about and then find alot of positive things in it and end up being some of the coolest kids in the scene...  some of the kids who organize the most things and do alot of positive things. Yeah, it is a drag that some kids don’t know what’s going on but there is always room for people to find out what is going on.
Pat: And, if they’re kicking your head in, they’re not finding out what’s going on.
Justin: And that sucks.
Pat: And that sucks.
Justin: This is a great interview by the way, those questions are really good.
Pat: Very good questions, well thought out.
Justin: Yeah. Sorry, we’re kind of in a silly mood...

That’s okay.

Justin: We’ve been in the van for easily 24 hours if not 36 hours, so it’s just like....

Yeah, I drove down from Canada and it took 3 hours
or something...

Pat: Yeah, you know what we’re dealing with just on a smaller level.
Justin: But, we’re sorry if we have goofy answers and stuff, we’re losing our minds...

Alot of people who aren’t into punk are pretty fucking stubborn and ignorant and can’t see the real problems we’re faced with and just think it’s natural.  How do you think we can get the mainstream society to at least think about what we’re saying instead of passing it off as bullshit?

Pat: I think we are doing that. By having shows like this, where there’s maybe 50 or 75 percent of the kids have been to another show but maybe 10 or 15 kids or whatever haven’t been to a show before and they come into the show and go wow this cool and they bring their friends in...
Justin: And, maybe they’ll go out and make a positive change.
Pat: Yeah and there’s alot of kids who are coming in who are new to what’s going on and going home and watching TV figuring out what they think is crap, reading a book figuring out what they think is crap and hopefully they’ll make a change.

You guy’s have started up your own label called “A-F Records” , I was wondering if you guys have any upcoming projects planned for it and Does everyone in the band help out with it?

Justin: Well we really don’t have any idea...
Pat: <chuckle> We’re just working on that one...

What about that solo record you are going to be doing, or that record with your Dad?

Justin: I’m gonna do it, I really am. What it’s going to be mostly, it’s just going to be me singing and playing guitar... It’s not going to be anything like Anti-Flag really, it’s kind of in a totally different direction. I wish the songs I was doing and stuff I could do with Anti-Flag cause if they were kind of in the same direction as Anti-Flag I would, but they’re not really... what’s the word.
Pat: In the same direction.
Justin: Yeah, they’re not really compatible with what we’re doing... But, I do still consider it Punk Rock and punk based and the message is the same alot. But, as far as A-F Records goes yeah we’re gonna to do something, we don’t know what. I get the feeling everybody will be involved. It was originally my idea and I didn’t really ask anybody for help, but I hope that they will help me out. Hopefully, we’ll do some local bands and some of our own stuff, we’ll see...

Alot of people seem to think whatever money they make at a job or whatever is theirs and they shouldn’t have to give a cent to anyone like the poor or whatever. What do you think this mentality and what do you think we could do about it?

Justin: Well, I think that’s really sad that there is a really conservative streak in this country. The whole idea of capitalism is to fuck everybody else to get as much as you can, so it makes sense that people think like that but it is very sad. As far as what can be done about it, I think the idea of just playing songs and talking to kids at shows and sometimes demonstrations and civil action like that and trying to make people aware of why it benefits them to help other people and also just that there’s alot more important things than accumulating as much wealth as you possibly can.
Pat: We can also explain to them game theory. In the game theory the best case scenario is when everybody cooperates but that probably wouldn’t work either. If you want game theory explained to you, you can write to me and I’ll give you my best college try.
Justin: <laugh>

At the rate us dumb humans are supplying corporations with billions of dollars yearly, do you think we’ll ever be able to take back this earth from their control before they kill us all?
Justin: Doubt it.

Pat: I have to agree with him.
Justin: I think we can do as much as we can to make it so that they don’t get more out of control then they are, but until there is a violent revolution and they’re all killed, I don’t think that things will change very much.
Pat: Chris says yes...
Justin: Which means that we have to kill Chris because he’s the head of Little Caesars.
Chris: No, Little Caesar’s are on the front lines in the revolution.
Justin: <laugh> They’re covert corporation.

Last night I read on the internet that N.A.S.A. will be sending a space shuttle into space filled with plutonium. When you hear something like this, what do you think?

Justin: I think, we’re fucked. <laugh>
Pat: I didn’t get a chance to hear that one before so I really have no comment on that one. Is that a new plan? I haven’t heard that...

Some people are protesting in Florida about it. <2nd hand information at this time>

Pat: Isn’t that going to be great, when that thing goes up into the air and explodes?
Justin: That’s very scary. Because,  I definetly would not want a space shuttle full of radiation taking off near my home.

The earth will be dead.

Justin: That’s bad, that is.

Scary...

Justin: Yeah.

When it comes to a song like Fuck Police Brutality, is this something that has happened to you guys personally or have you guys just seen it happen to other punks?

Pat: We thought it was a clever song, we heard that Fuck Police Brutality is cool...
Justin: Yeah, we thought it was really punk. <laugh> No, uhmm almost everything on the CD is almost stuff that always seemed to happen to us. It was funny because somebody pointed out to us the other night, they said; “Alot of your songs are really cliche, the topics are kind of cliche.” We’re like yeah... He asked us how we came up with the topics for those songs, and we said Well, Gosh, almost all that stuff has happened to us. But, that particular song was about a time one of our friends at a show was beat up by the cops for no reason at all, it was really stupid and the cops ended up pulling a gun on me too, and it was a really crazy night, and that’s what that whole song was influenced by.

Do you think if punk rock was in the mainstream forever, Would it open alot of peoples minds or do you think it would it backfire in our face with fashion punks, ignorance, capitalists and so on?

Pat: That’s a big issue that we’re dealing with now and have dealt with in the last year of whether punk rock is supposed to be, I’m going to take your argument a take it a little farther. Wether punk rock is supposed to be an elitist clique where only the cool people get to hang out or wether it’s supposed to be a place with open arms and where we want to pull in more and more people to...

We do for sure, but I think we’d pull in more ignorance.....

Pat: However, in the end are we thinking people are good or people are bad and if we’re saying we want to be an elitist clique and we don’t want all the other people to be in there because those are ignorant people and we’re better than them...
Justin: Hopefully, you know they’ll be exposed to something that’ll help that ignorance...
Pat: There’s ideas that when people come in from outside who they get exposed to these ideas and think well maybe that’s a better idea than the one that I had and maybe we should think about that. However, there is another issue with alot of kids because they have a spiky hair cut think that they already know all the answers and don’t have to think about it, but all of us need to keep reinventing what we believe and keep our minds open to what’s going on.

What ‘zines do you read that you think fucking rock when it comes to educating someone about political and personal issues that everyone should inform themselves on?

Justin: Which what, sorry?
Pat: ‘Zines.

Which Zines....

Justin: Agree To Disagree. Uhm, alot of the ‘zines that I used to like I have issues with and I could name a bunch but I’m not going to, anybody else? Okay, but some that I do like there’s a really good one in Cincinnati called, Used Underwear that’s really good... There’s another really good one in Florida called Trailer Trash, there’s another really good one in Florida called Scum ‘Zine which is really, really good, and then there’s like the biggies...
Pat: Ten Things...
Justin: Well, yeah. And, Fucktooth is a cool one too actually, I like Fucktooth. Then there are the big ones like all the Profane Existence stuff but I don’t have to get into that.
What smaller bands do you guys listen to that barely anyone knows about and Where are they from?
Pat: Submission Hold from Vancouver, I love them, they are amazing.
Justin: Actually, Submission Hold is one of my very favorite bands. I love D.B.S. too from Vancouver as a matter of fact. Alot of bands in Vancouver, I like though. Reagan Squad from Pittsburgh, they’re really awesome. Angry, was it Angry Youth?
Pat: Yeah, Angry Youth.
Justin: Angry Youth from Corona, California are awesome.
Pat: The Unseen from Boston, The Lesser Humans from Cincinnati, Ohio.
Justin: Suck My Ass from Pittsburgh... Press Gang from Pittsburgh...
Pat: We’ll get back to you on that one, if we think of anymore.
Justin: Those are the biggies. Oh, Kid Company from Portsmith, but they’re not called Kid Company anymore they have a new name. The Useless Fucks are also a really good band from Portsmith, too...

Do you think people on earth have a hard time showing that they like or love a certain person?

Pat: Oh yeah.
Justin: What? I missed the question.
Pat: Whether we think people have a hard time showing that they like or love somebody.
Justin: Well, yeah it is sad, sometimes it’s really hard,  because you do certain things because your stubborn or your an idiot or something but you want to do something different, sometimes though your just afraid of how people are going to react to you if you tell them you care about them and stuff, so it’s hard.

How did you guys hook up with Nefer Records and D.B.S. for the split CD?

Justin: Well, we saw DBS at Gilman Street over a long time ago and they were really cool, and they were just great guys. We fell in love with them, they’re awesome. So then we got to talking and they were going on tour about the same time we were so we decided to go out together and then we decided that since we were going to tour together for two months and we really liked each others bands why don’t we put out a split CD together so we did. Basically, Nefer Records was managing DBS at the time, and DBS kind of had a deal with Nefer Records so it came out on Nefer Records. But, basically DBS had a falling out with Nefer Records and we weren’t exactly impressed with how Nefer Records was conducting business either for particular reasons I won’t go into. Yeah so, we decided not to repress it with Nefer and because Nefer had this deal with DBS we couldn’t repress it on our own because I guess they kind of  have some rights over DBS’s songs or some bullshit like that. So, that’s the whole story.

Can you guys give us a quick discography and let us know if you’re old releases are still available and if so from where?

Justin: Stuff that’s available is a split seven inch, it was our first seven inch with a really great band from Pittsburgh called, The Bad Genes. Our second seven inch is called Kill Kill Kill. It’s a seven inch EP and that’s still available. Then we did this split with DBS and that’s not available anymore.

Do you know how many they pressed?

Justin: I think a thousand.

That’s it?

Justin: Yeah.

Holy shit, that’s it.

Justin: We have a split coming out with Against All Authority, we have a split coming out with a band from Japan. We have a full length CD on New Red Archives called Die For The Government.

Which fucking rocks.

Justin: Thank you. <giggle> We have another full length that will be out within a year and I think that’s it.
Pat: We have a split 12" picture disc...

Awww, right on! On Clearview...

Pat: Coming out on Clearview in six weeks, it’s like a split deal thing and hopefully that will be out pretty soon.

Is that a split with two bands or two labels and?

Pat: It’s a split deal with two bands and two labels.

Which labels?

Pat: It’s Six Weeks, Athena from the Dreads label and Clearview and The Dreads on the other side and we’re on one side.
Justin: Any of that stuff, that you want, you can write to us at our Post Office Box which I’m sure will be at the end of this interview, but I’ll tell you right now. It’s A-F Records, PO Box 71266, Pittsburgh PA, 15213 USA.

Okay guys, time to go meet President Bill Clinton any last comments before we do?

Justin: <laugh> Yo, fuckin’ whore... That was to Bill Clinton.
Pat: I think I’d like to meet Bill Clinton, him and I can talk, we’d chat it’d be nice...

Say your seven inch title.

Justin: Kill Kill Kill! Fuck The Pope!
Pat: Except, we wouldn’t have to give him eighteen million dollars to get a tea party with him so we can influence his votes in upcoming issues.
Justin: I think it’d be fun, we’ll have his people call our people, we’ll call his people we’ll set it up, you know it’ll be beautiful babe, we’ll love it.

Okay, that’s it.

Pat: Thanks alot man, that was great.
Justin: That was great, that was an awesome interview. A-F
PO Box 71266
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
USA