Grab Boy: so do you belive in god
Grab Boy: hello
IOIOOIIOIO: What's god?
Grab Boy: He is my personal savoir
Grab Boy: he died so i may live
Grab Boy: he is many things
Grab Boy: hello
IOIOOIIOIO: What makes you think I'd believe in your personal saviour (whatever that is)?
Grab Boy: Jesus
Grab Boy: god
Grab Boy: the holy ghost
IOIOOIIOIO: These things make you think I've believe in your personal saviour?
Grab Boy: never mind that
Grab Boy: do you belive in a god
IOIOOIIOIO: Hmmm... weird. Do you take any medication for this condtion?
IOIOOIIOIO: What is "god"?
Grab Boy: He is what he is
Grab Boy: i could blurt out some definition
IOIOOIIOIO: That's not very explanatory.
Grab Boy: but that would not describe god
Grab Boy: he is my creator
IOIOOIIOIO: Do you believe in a snogblart? Snogblarts are what snogblarts are, in case you don't know what they are.
IOIOOIIOIO: God is your parents?
Grab Boy: Yes
Grab Boy: you are running me in circles
IOIOOIIOIO: wouldn't your mother be a better role as "creator"?
Grab Boy: and we are getting nowhere
IOIOOIIOIO: well... you're the one using terms you can't attach any concrete meaning to
Grab Boy: i can if you would stop trying to show off how smart you are
IOIOOIIOIO: Okay... What is "god"?
Grab Boy: do you beive that some super natural being created the universe
IOIOOIIOIO: I don't know how the universe came into being or even IF the universe came into being. I'm willing to accept that I don't know and not generate baseless conjecture.
IOIOOIIOIO: So, no, I don't believe that.
Grab Boy: so you belive it just became
Grab Boy: created itself
Grab Boy: poof
IOIOOIIOIO: I don't believe anything regarding that... as I said, I'm content to simply admit that I don't know
Grab Boy: oh
Grab Boy: what if im right
Grab Boy: and there is a god
IOIOOIIOIO: What if you're wrong... and there is a god?
Grab Boy: no
Grab Boy: dont argue with me just listen
Grab Boy: and i wll do the same
IOIOOIIOIO: You're using Pascal's Wager... it's sophistry.
Grab Boy: and you choose not to accept him
Grab Boy: what then
IOIOOIIOIO: What if you're wrong... and there is a god... and it's not been the one you've been pandering to... what then?
Grab Boy: then im screwed
Grab Boy: but ive seen god work in my life
IOIOOIIOIO: Exactly... not only are you screwed in the afterlife but you will have also spent your life pandering to the imagined whims of a false idol...
Grab Boy: ive felt god and seen him work in my life
Grab Boy: i know he exist
IOIOOIIOIO: Why waste this life waiting for the next one? Esp. since you don't even know if there will be a next one.
Grab Boy: its called faith
Grab Boy: because its a fair trade
Grab Boy: if im wrong
IOIOOIIOIO: Faith in a false idol won't save you from the hell of a god you've denied
Grab Boy: i die and nothing happens
IOIOOIIOIO: You die and burn in hell... because you've been worshipping the wrong god
Grab Boy: but if im right and i rejected god
IOIOOIIOIO: The options are more than just your god or no god
Grab Boy: i have faith
IOIOOIIOIO: You already have rejected most gods
Grab Boy: i dont belive in religion
IOIOOIIOIO: Atheists simply reject one more gods than you.
Grab Boy: i only belive in god
IOIOOIIOIO: one god out of thousands
Grab Boy: i have seen him work in my life
Grab Boy: i know he is real
Grab Boy: its called faith
IOIOOIIOIO: you're betting your life on those odds and there's the possibility that there's not even a jackpot to be won...
Grab Boy: we are talking eachother in circles
Grab Boy: getting nowhere
IOIOOIIOIO: How do you know that wasn't the real god trying to get through to you? How do you know it wasn't some false god trying to lead you astray?
IOIOOIIOIO: oh yes... "faith
IOIOOIIOIO: sure... because "god" is an ambiguous concept
Grab Boy: how old are you?
IOIOOIIOIO: 20
Grab Boy: hmm
IOIOOIIOIO: und du?
Grab Boy: Here is a real mind bender
Grab Boy: do any of us really exist?
IOIOOIIOIO: oy... solipsism, now?
IOIOOIIOIO: I exist, at least.
Grab Boy: prove it!
IOIOOIIOIO: Something, which is called "I," is perceiving. There can be not perception without the existence of the perciever... thus "I," whatever "I" happens to be, exists.
Grab Boy: that is not prove
Grab Boy: what if i though that
IOIOOIIOIO: "I" does think that.
Grab Boy: no
Grab Boy: to see the end is to have known the begining
Grab Boy: that is life
IOIOOIIOIO: That's the point... something must exist to do the thinking or the perceiving.
IOIOOIIOIO: what thinks it's doing the thinking or what the perceiver perceives itself to be may not exist... but the perceiver, whatever it is... is.
IOIOOIIOIO: Unless you have a theory of perception which does not require an extant perceiver.
Grab Boy: to me i am to me youarnt
Grab Boy: we are nothing
Grab Boy: waves of thoughts of a fogoting past
IOIOOIIOIO: "I" is... that's all you can say for sure. You can't even say WHAT "I" is... merely that it exists.
Grab Boy: to me it is to me it is not
Grab Boy: i am not
Grab Boy: i am
Grab Boy: what is the truth?
Grab Boy: wht is truth
IOIOOIIOIO: "I" may not be what you perceive yourself to be, even. You could be a brain in a tank being fed sensory data about what you are... in which case "I" would be a brain in a tank- but it would still BE.
Grab Boy: be is not here
Grab Boy: i ma not there
Grab Boy: are we anywhere
Grab Boy: or nowhere
Grab Boy: TO HAVE KNOWN IS TO HAVE EXISTED!!!!
IOIOOIIOIO: your replies are incoherent.
IOIOOIIOIO: To perceive is to exist.
Grab Boy: To exist is to have prercieved
IOIOOIIOIO: verifiably, at least.
Grab Boy: or
Grab Boy: we are not
Grab Boy: and i is
IOIOOIIOIO: Nah... you could "have perceived" but no longer exist
Grab Boy: not
Grab Boy: me thinks
Grab Boy: you dont
IOIOOIIOIO: If you're currently perceiving then whatever is perceiving must exist
Grab Boy: am i
IOIOOIIOIO: you may not be... but "I" am
Grab Boy: mabye we are all in the MATRIX
Grab Boy: MUAHAHAHAHA
IOIOOIIOIO: Regardless... we ARE.
IOIOOIIOIO: even if this whole reality is a fabrication, our consciousness must exist somewhere.
Grab Boy: i love to talk in cirlces
IOIOOIIOIO: Yes, Mr Anderson...
Grab Boy: MUAHAHAHA
Grab Boy: to be or not to be
Grab Boy: is not the question
Grab Boy: the question is
Grab Boy: am i a reallity
IOIOOIIOIO: No way of knowing. No way of knowing if "I" is real. All you know is that the perceiver which perceives itself as "I" exists
Grab Boy: how do i know that
IOIOOIIOIO: because there can be no perception without an extant perceiver.
Grab Boy: but there needs to be only one perciever
IOIOOIIOIO: correct.
Grab Boy: who is that
Grab Boy: or what
Grab Boy: me
Grab Boy: or you
IOIOOIIOIO: The objects perceived do not necessarily exist... including the identity of "I"
Grab Boy: oh
Grab Boy: so i am not
Grab Boy: i am just a thought
IOIOOIIOIO: you could be... but you are the thought of something which must exist.
IOIOOIIOIO: And currently you think you are the thing that's thinking.
IOIOOIIOIO: whether this is the case or not, something exists which is thinking
Grab Boy: mabye so
Grab Boy: mabye not
IOIOOIIOIO: If so, come up with a method by which perception can occur without a perceiver
IOIOOIIOIO: otherwise a perceiver must exist
Grab Boy: me
Grab Boy: i am for i think
Grab Boy: there for i precieve
IOIOOIIOIO: perception is self-evident.
Grab Boy: i have the anwser
IOIOOIIOIO: Do you?
Grab Boy: accept reallity as you know it tell you can prove otherwise
IOIOOIIOIO: that's the general working hypothesis, yes.
IOIOOIIOIO: It's generally suggested that you don't test the hypothesis is potentially dangerous ways.
Grab Boy: so not shooting myself in the head
IOIOOIIOIO: or jumping off buildings to test whether gravity is part of the real reality.
Grab Boy: ok
Grab Boy: i wont do that
IOIOOIIOIO: Also keep in mind: Imagined consequences in an imagined universe are just as real as real consequences in a real universe.
Grab Boy: unless
IOIOOIIOIO: yes?
Grab Boy: i can change reallity
IOIOOIIOIO: Can you? I don't seem to be able to.
Grab Boy: ya
Grab Boy: when i sleep
Grab Boy: i can do as i please
IOIOOIIOIO: That's verifiably an imagined reality, I'd think.
Grab Boy: is it
IOIOOIIOIO: Compared to the accepted reality- yes.
Grab Boy: oh
IOIOOIIOIO: Anything else?
Grab Boy: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
IOIOOIIOIO: Three, acc. to Mr Owl.
Grab Boy: oh
IOIOOIIOIO: it's no precise number, though... it could be one really long lick up to, I imagine, and infinite number of infinitely small licks
Grab Boy: oh
IOIOOIIOIO: So it all depends on how long you lick, how good a solvent your saliva is, etc.
IOIOOIIOIO: thus you must find out how many licks it takes YOU.
IOIOOIIOIO: Of course we could establish a "Standard Lick" in which case we could have an exact answer.
Grab Boy: mabye
Grab Boy: you over think somethings dude
IOIOOIIOIO: So I've been told.
Grab Boy: what do you do for work
IOIOOIIOIO: I'm an unemployed loaf living off an inheritance from my grandfather whilst I go to school.
Grab Boy: oh
Grab Boy: sound like fun
IOIOOIIOIO: It can be. Work has a lot of benefits, though... gets you out meeting people. I rarely bother to leave my apartment at this point.
IOIOOIIOIO: What's your life like?
Grab Boy: im a senior
IOIOOIIOIO: Ah... highschool...
Grab Boy: yes
Grab Boy: right now im working though
IOIOOIIOIO: What do you do?
Continued...
