Those
arrogant Yanks are worried..? [6/4/99]
WEI Huang : When is the Yankees really going to learn that
China can develop her own space technology and not by
stealing designs from the Americans? And when are they
going to realize that with so many talented scientists in
China varsities across this huge country, we can easily
gather the best and develop a design so much superior
than theirs'? In recent years, there are so much
criticism about the success of the China's space programe
in America and just last month, they came out with the
Cox Report accusing China espionage. This report is
basically grousdless and useless and the only purpose of
this report is to "comfort" themself... that
China's recent success is through stealing. Hence,
reminding themselves that they are still better than the
Chinese.
[6/4/99] C. Land : No doubt that the Chinese will forge ahead in
the space , rocket, and satellite fields.Does anybody
remember who invented gunpowder, rockets and were sitting
at tables eating out of bowls when Europeans were in
caves growling over scraps of meat? Not all of us are
arrogant, generally just the Elected Politicians, cross
your fingers for a change to the better with the next
Presidential election.
[6/4/99] wickam : I agree when C.Land says that not all Americans
arrogant. There would be no need for this if they were
more aware of what goes on wround them. Unfortunately,
americans are like people everywhere who take at face
value eerything they see and hear on t.v.
For example, China will probably put her first man in
sapce within a year or two. I can safely predict that
there will be news reports (mainly U.S.) that will say
that the Chinese couldn't have done it if they didn't
steal the technology!
Wanna bet?
Sadly, the average American will probably believe it too,
as a result...
Ho hum...
[6/30/99] Chiew Lee Yih : Most American hope Challenger disaster will
happen to China? So you admit that most American will
actually hope the first Taikonaut fried like General
Tso's Chicken deep inside?
I am sure they will be praying for the Taikonaut openly
in Church, though.
Just like when they pray for the people of Yugoslavia and
Iraqi at the very time of the bombing.
[6/11/99] Keep It Real : Why is it so easy to see the world as black and
white? "We're great and they're arrogant!"
Really sad. I love the statement that the Cox report was
completely groundless. How silly. COMPLETELY? Please,
keep it real! Of course China spys and steals technology.
Why wouldn't it? It has a stated goal of leapfroging into
the 21st century, and the easist way to do so is to build
on the work of others. Why do the basic R&D that the
US and Russia did in the Sixties, for goodness sakes?
Here's the part where you might accuse me of that black
and white thinking I mentioned earlier. I'm a
"Yank", but I'm not stupid. Nor would I ever
say that China does not have the human resources to
devlop a space program or a nuclear program. There are
meny intelligent men and woman in the PRC, and the nation
it's self has the technological and economic
infrastruction to build a space program. The same as the
US and Russia have. But that wouldn't stop them from
stealing tech if it suited their goal. And when you post
a statement "develop a design so much superior than
theirs'?" don't be going around accusing someone
else of arrogance. The proof is in the pudding, so let's
have a side by side comparision.Let the flames begin.
[6/30/99] Chiew Lee Yih : Like Zhu Rongji have said in his joke, the
American is accusing China of planning to steal the
secret of the universe.
(It is only at the planning stage though, do American
even get close to reveal the secret of the universe? What
are they complaing about? China didn't patent the rocket
science, even if China patented rocket science, will it
prevent the west from stealing our invention?
[7/10/99] Alex Buell : As a Brit who hates the Americans, I'm glad
China will soon habve the ability to give the Americans a
shift kick up their rear and get the space programme
moving forward once again. We have done NOTHING since the
late 1960s. We really need to move on and build on these
successes and get a true foothold in space.
[6/7/99] WEI HUANG : Yes, not all yanks all arrogant... Some of them
even hinted that if US do not buckle up sooner, China
will surpass them in a few years. And yes, the only thing
they can do then is to argue again, in their Congress who
is/are responsible for the espionage. And yes, they will
always comfort themselves that China's Success is
achieved thru stealing.
Hey,
You're on ABC News!!! Congrats! [6/4/99]
JT : Hey, You're on ABC News!!! Congrats!
"A Chinese engineer named Chen Lan, who lives in
Singapore and runs a highly-respected Web site on the
Chinese space program, has also criticized the Cox
report. 'These low-level errors should have been avoided
if they did the work a little more seriously,' he posted
recently. Chen Lan reported that flight statistics and
payload capabilities were often in error."
[6/4/99] He Weiting : Chen Lan,
I'm interested to see more of these mistakes (I found
several myself in the section on high-speed computing and
especially in manufacturing processes). Where's the
forum?
[6/5/99] Chen Lan : No forum. You can try to post it to computing
related newsgroups. But it is unlikely to be pubilished
unless someone write an article on mainstream media.
[6/4/99] He Weiting :
Yup, that's how I learn about this talented descendent of
the dragon.
[6/5/99] Chen Lan :
Thank James Oberg
About
the spacecraft pics [6/9/99]
lkshen:
I have a question. Since these pics were taken by May
1998, why is it so early that the rocket has been on the
launch field? And until now it still has not launched
yet. Or is this just a test for something?
[6/13/99] Chen Lan:
Yes, it has been actually a report that China made a
"full-set" exercise in Aril/May 1998.
New
Manned SLV [6/9/99]
Rick Fisher : If there is a possiblity that the new picture of
the manned SLV is faked, what would be your reasons for
saying so. There are many consistencies with previous
reports such as: clear evidence of impact of Soyuz design
on capsule; early use of a version of the LM-2 (now
called LM-2F); and launch from new facilities at the
Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center. I think the prep
building looks fairly new. I would be more inclined to
believe that we are benfiting from leaked information. I
would also even postulate that China may be considering
accelerating the launch schedule this year of the
unmanned and then a manned capsule primarily in response
to outrage over American accusations of espionage. In
short, China's leadership wants to prove that it can
master manned space access by itself, perhaps in time for
the October anniversary. These are honest assessments and
I would appreciate anyone's considered response. Thanks.
[6/9/99] wfm : Comment about the spacecraft in this new
picture...
http://solar.rtd.utk.edu/~mwade/craft/proct921.htm
[6/9/99] wickam : I have no problem with your assessment. If they
have indeed sped up the schedule, I can only hope that
the needed precautions are being taken. Coming back to
the photograph itself, if one were to examine it closely,
at the top seems to be a cluster of small thrusters. Now
I'm no expert on rockets. Are they thrusters? If they are
thrusters would there be a need for them for an ordinary
satellite launch? Or are they there for safety purposes
eg an escape for a manned vehicle? I'm only speculating.
If memory serves me right, I do believe that there were
similar clusters on the first american manned capsules?
As I said, I'm only speculating and this is all a shot in
the dark for me. Perhaps someone can enlighten me...
[6/10/99] Nathan Koren : That's an escape tower. In the event of a rocket
explosion, the propell the payload out of harm's way. As
a general rule, you only see them on manned vehicles.
(Exceptions to this include the first few American
spaceflights, which didn't have enough power to launch
both a capsule *and* an escape tower, and the Space
Shuttle, which has had no eject capability since it's
third flight.)
As far as I know, the only time an escape tower has ever
been used was during a spectacular Soyuz failure. The
rocket exploded on the pad, and the tower sent the crew
capsule hurtling away at 20 g. Believe it or not, they
survived!
[6/9/99] Chen Lan: It is from an online forum on which there are
large amount of faked photos. However, for this photo, I
belive the possibility (it is true) is more than 50%.
[6/14/99] Dong Feng: I have read you article, which is very
interesting in terms of space flight and technology in
China. It was always said that China was the birth place
of rocketry back in the 400 BC. And the first true rocket
was discovered and invented by a Chinese inventor, Feng
Jishen in about 970 AD. Recently, there are published
reports regarding new Chinese solid fueled ICBM, DF-31/41
that can fly to 8000km to 13000km, with MIRV,
respectively. Chenlan had replied to my questions that
China "mostly" developed the technology
independently. Do you think China also stole MIRV
technology from other countries as China had already
launched multiple satellites with one rocket in the early
1980's and satellite recoveries in the mid 1970's. Why
the Cox report just mentioned only the stealing of the
MIRV technology in 1990's. In the report he mentioned
that the world greatest surving rocket scientist, Tsien,
Hsue-shen, a formers student of Dr. Karmen, and professor
at MIT and Caltech, and founder of JPL at Caltech., along
with his Chinese team worked on the design of Titan ICBM.
Do you think he was the chief designer of Titan ICBM and
completed the design prior to his leaving for China in
1955. Since Tsien was very knowledgeable of space flight
and aerodynamic design most of the experts believed that
China will perhaps create her own sophiticated
technology.
Yang Zheng of National University of Singapore wrote an
article regarding China's nuclear arsenal, which also
mentioned the MIRV technology which China had used on her
DF-5A ICBM with ranges of 12000km to 17000km with 6-one
megaton warhead or single 10 megatons fitted on the snout
of the DF-5A. His report also mentioned that China may
have possessed more ICBM capability than being
underestimated. He gave a description of DF-6/7 with
ranges of 16000km to 19000km with MIRV, which were widely
known to be cancelled or concealed. Do you think these
liquid fueled ICBM really still exist? They must be
bigger than the most mentioned DF-5/5A.
www.spacechina.com [6/9/99]
wickam : Check it out. I believe it's a new site (by
China Aero Space Corp? CASC)
It's english and chinese and quite technical with a
lengthy comment on Cox's report.
[6/9/99] Chen Lan: Thanks a lot. I'll add it into my page.
To
Chenlan [6/10/99]
Dong Feng: I heard mobile DF-31 had been tested sucessfully
in the early 1995 with ranges of 8000km to 1000km.
Can you give the exact ranges and warhead of this new
solid fueled missile? Do you think China can develop this
solid fuel technology herself or just obtained it from
Russia? Western media always mentioned that China is not
capable of developing this new missile without outside
help.
When do you think another Chinese solid fueled missile
DF-41 will be tested-fly and produced. Can you give
description of DF-41?
Question
about the LM-2F photo? [6/10/99]
Astrophysics Guy : This LM-2F rocket looks more like the old LM-2E
rocket rather than the proposed LM-2E(A) rocket, which
has four larger strapped boosters. Does this mean that
the spaceship is in the 10 ton range rather than the 15
or 20 ton ranges?
[6/13/99] Chen Lan: Chinese manned vehicle weighs about 8-9 tons.
CZ-2E(A) is prepared for commercial launch and future
space station launch.
To
Chenlan [6/10/99]
Dong Feng: Chenlan, I recently read an article regarding
China's nuclear arsenal written by Yang Zheng of National
University of Singapore. He said that China did have
liquid fueled Dong Feng-6/7 with ranges of 16000km to
19000km, and MIRV, respectively. Do you think this source
is true, or DF-6/7 project was cancelled or concealed? If
China does still have these kind of nuclear tipped long
ranged missiles, what and where are they going to be used
for since DF-5/5A with ranges of 11000km to 17000km
enough to reach any corners of the world? He also
mentioned that a single DF-5A can be fitted with 6-one
megaton warhead or single 10 megaton warhead easily. And
some say DF-5A can fly only 13500km and some say more
than that.
I am also a fan of Dr. Tsien, Hsue-sen, a former
professor of aeronautical engineering and applied
mathematician at MIT and Caltech, and founder of JPL at
Caltech. Do you think Dr. Tsien would rank in the same
class or above Dr. Wehner von Braun of Germany?
I am curious to know the answer.
[6/13/99] Chen Lan: I'm not very familiar with Chinese missile
program. So I try to answer only part of your questions,
both in this and previous posts.
Qian Xuesen:
He is not in the same class of Von Braun. If you know
thier age at that time, you will know who is the teacher
and who is the student. However interestingly, Qian is
one of the member of the delegation to Germany to accept
German scientists including Von Braun.
Chinese solid capability:
China has the full solid missile JL-1 since early 80s. It
is not copied from USA.
1995 DF-31 test.
I know nothing about it. But it is reportedly a CZ-1D
suborbital test that year. The later report indicates
CZ-1D's first suborbital test is in 1997. So the 1995
launch should be a missle test, maybe DF-31?
China
and 'International Space Station' [6/11/99]
Manchu Bannerman : Should China get involved in ISS? My opinion is
that we should never involed in that in a significant
way.
[6/13/99] Chen Lan : Partly agree.
Ideally, China should have its own station and a module
on ISS, like European had planned 10 years ago. China's
station will be short-term manned, according to the
report. While ISS provides long term capability.
Motorola's
iridium satellites [6/12/99]
wickam : Two iridium satellites were successfully
launched on Saturday morning, according to China Radio
International (CRI)...
Comment
from International Herald Tribune... [6/14/99]
wfm : From
"http://www.iht.com:80/IHT/TODAY/MON/FIN/rchine.html"
(long article deleted, except for following
interesting paragraph)
China's official Xinhua news agency reported June 6 that
the 80-year old aerospace scientist Yang Jiaxi hopes to
surpass John Glenn as the world's oldest astronaut.
''China is striving to achieve breakthroughs in manned
space vehicles early next century,'' the agency reported,
and said that later in the century China would land on
the moon.
Photos
Give First Glimpse of Chinese Manned Launcher [6/14/99]
wfm : Comment from Spaceview(www.spaceviews.com):
....... (long article deleted)
Spaceship
or Space Shuttle [6/16/99]
Manchu Bannerman : HK stardard mentioned that China will conduct
several missile tests and a unmanned space shuttle this
year. Is the newspaper making a mistake? It should be
unmanned spaceship NOT space shuttle, I think. But I am
not sure. Please confirm.
Thanks in advance.
[6/17/99] Chen Lan: HK newspaper often make mistakes. There are two
rumored launches later this year: an unmanned spaceship
launch and DF-41 launch.
LAUNCH
OF LM2F: Will it boost China's reputation [6/16/99]
CCL5 : After a string of failures that started in
January 1995,China's reputation begain sliding down.So I
ask will the launch of LM2F boost China's reputation
[6/16/99] Chen Lan: Absolutely. In fact, Long March's reputation has
partly recovered. It has 15 successful launches since
last failure.
Careful
is Careful but.... [6/18/99]
He Weiting : Test flight in 2000 and first manned flight in
2003? To be careful is one thing bbu three years from
initial flight test to manned voyage of a Soyuz type
capsule is ridiculous. A tardy and overly timid space
program will do nothing to boost China's reputation, and
indeed, may make it even the further butt of rude jokes.
Although cpnflicting reports and timetables are almost
normal for the Chinese space program.
[6/18/99] Chen Lan: Yes. Inconsistent reports are normal for Chinese
manned program in recent years. Although no one knows the
exact schedule, I still expect an unmanned launch this
year. 2000/2003 timetable from China Great Wall seems
based on old sources. They are not core organization of
the manned program, so it may be wrong.
Discrepancies
in CZ failure log? [6/20/99]
Tony Chow: I scanned your Q&A section, and then the
Launch Log section, and found the following discrepency:
In the Q&A, under the heading "Do you think Long
March is a reliable launcher?", the Long March
series is said to have expenrienced 3 failures and 4
partial failures from April, 1970, to March, 1998.
But the Launch Log chart clearly documents 7 failures and
4 partial failures, the last one being the abortive
launch of CZ-3 on 8/18/1996, well within the range cited
in the Q&A chart.
How do you explain this?
[6/20/99] Chen Lan: The problem is Fengbao-1 rocket. If you include
it, there will be four more failures. In my log table,
you will see #1 and #2 order. There was also a debate
(about the log) in China early this year. China's
official Long March log does not include it(FB-1).
However, FB-1 is a CZ-2 copy and also the base of CZ-4,
it seems reasonale to include it. On the other side, it
was built in Shanghai and has different internal systems.
It was cancelled for its low reliability. It is also
reasonable to be thought a independent serie. Later
Shanghai built CZ-4 program adopts many design from CZ-2,
so use CZ desination.
[6/20/99] Tony Chow : Thank you, that's a satisfactory reply.
Unmanned
test flight [6/21/99]
Anthony : If official reports says the unmanned test
flight will be postponed to year 2000.....then why on
earth did they roll out man rated launcher into the
launch pad now, as your photo suggest...Why would anyone
want to leave that multi million dollar rocket exposed to
rain and sun on the launch pad for another 6 months? It's
a huge risk, no sane person will do that
......unless......the whole thing is a hoax....I mean the
picture.
[6/22/99] Chen Lan: 1) I still expect an unmanned launch this year.
Message from Great Wall at Paris Airshow is probably
outdated. Previous reports once suggested the first
unmanned launch in 2000 but recent reports (since early
this year) implies it will go this year. (such as the
CCTV report about the tracking fleet)
2) The CZ-2F photo was taken last May in a rehearsal. It
is moved to the launch pad just before launch and can be
moved back. This is very similar to the NASA Shuttle.
When???I
can't hold my breath that long!!! [6/26/99]
mike lou: Hi all: I see the photos of the Chinese space
rocket..it is very impressive; and I hope it's for real.
Does anyone hazard a guess as to when it's going to lift
off???And how are we outside China going to know if it
has indeed happened???I don't really want/trust the US
media on their "objective" reporting of all
things Chinese...especially positive things...
Thanks..and CHINA___JA YOU!!!
mike
China
looks to blast off into the Space Age(From UST Today) [6/28/99]
wfm : http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/nwssun03.htm
(long article deleted)
China
close to manned spaceflight(From USA Today) [6/28/99]
wfm : http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/nwssun05.htm
(long article deleted)
[6/29/99] He Weiting : "The project is based largely on
technology China has purchased from Russia, aerospace
experts believe."
Once again that familiar chant "The Chinese
Can't....The Chinese Can't"
[6/29/99] Chen Lan : Fairly to say, this is a positive article on
Chinese space program. An another article has large part
on ancient Chinese rocketry. What you have mentioned
seems not arthur's fault, but the long time influence of
western media.
[6/29/99] Yun Chen : I should say, Chen Lan did a great job
collecting information on Chinese spce program and bring
it to awareness of the world. Thanks. Also amazed at your
adroit, accurate and appropriate analysis.
China
'jealous'? Of whom...? [6/29/99]
wickam : Paul Hoversten in USA Today's article says that
China has long been "jealous of other nation's
pre-eminence in space". I'm puzzled. From what does
one draw such a negative conclusion? Because Mao
allegedly said, "China cannot even get a potato in
orbit?"
If Mao said that then he was right! It's also a hilarious
observation on his part! One has to admire any leader who
can laugh at himself and the shortcomings of his country.
Unless, of course, one wants to believe that Mao was
incapable of having a sense of humour!
As well, China had the capability of launching a man in
space ten-twenty years ago. But instead of doing so she
embarked on a program of economic reforms instead of
esoteric adventures in space. This is hardly the
behaviour of a government
'jealous' of others pre-eminence in space.
Whatever, Mao will have the last and best laugh when the
country he has helped re-make finally does put her first
man in space...
Keep on rock(et)ing, China...!
[6/30/99] Chiew Lee Yih : Who is jelous with whom? whenever they see
somebody have the same thing they have, they immidiately
shout: thief!
anybody notice that
the article start with China being jelous and end with
NASA being "unconcerned"
[6/30/99] jo : I strongly believe china should name their first
manned flight in space "Potato 1" Moa would be
proud to see china put it's first potato into space.
[6/30/99] Chiew Lee Yih : Is Mao refer potato as Tu Dou, or Maling Shu?
"Potato1"
in space. [6/30/99]
jo : I strongly believe china should name their first
manned flight in space "Potato 1" Moa would be
proud to see china put it's first potato into space. It
would be funny to hear the newscasters saying liftoff of
Potato 1 today ......1999or2000.
Taikonaut
should never eat Hamburger in space! [6/30/99]
Chiew Lee Yih : The Chinese space food that you post looks
really terrible:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/1921/food.jpg
I see western cookies among them, my god, why not just
let Taikonaut eat hamburger and wear western suit on
space! Consider it a free advertisement for Mcdonald's
and western fashion industry (to applease the west, I
guess). (I think at least during interview by the Press,
Taikonaut should wear traditional clothing, those Tang
dynasty costume is surely too cumbersome to wear in the
cabin, though) Also, I think the cookies (or biscuit)
will break up and floating around the cabin, is that so?
Why don't you work with the Chinese food industry and
start a page to request traditional Chinese food eatable
in space, those who win the first prize can win some
prize. (Food, I guess?)
This will make your "Go Taikonaut" page more
famous among internet Chinese community, why don't find
someone who has free time to translate your home page
into Chinese? Post it in newsgroup and I think a lot of
people will be happy to help you. They can update the
homepage continuously, 365 days a year, I am sure there
are a lot of willing people out there.
Please consider my idea of making a Taikonaut food
contest, DON'T let Taikonaut eat those terrible
Hamburger!!!!
Last thing I want to say is, do you have time to travel
to my home town to eat the Hainan Chicken riceball? May
be you will help make it the official Taikonaut food,
Melaka is not that far away, just 5 hour drive from
Singapore.
Melaka's Hainan Chicken Riceball near the Red House in
Bandar Hilir (actually it is is Holannd street) is serve
with rice that is ball shape, as big as a Ping Pong ball.
Only the family business near the red house can make a
real tasty and yet firm riceball that won't chip off
while you eating them.
[7/2/99] mike lou : Wow...fifty years ago, our motherland (my ethnic
motherland) could not even build a simple engine for a
car....today, we anticipate the send-off of Chinese
taikonauts aboard Chinese-made rockets and
space-capsule/ship....and every details of the flight
will be recorded by three giant satellite-tracking ships
in the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans. China has
indeed come a long, long way. I am proud to be Chinese.
And Mr. Chen, you are one of those people inside and
outside of China, who, in their unique and special ways,
contributed to China's reemergence...I thank you for your
dedication...You would be a great role model for many
Chines overseas who should ought to reaquainted
themselves with their new and vastly more powerful
motherland.
yours
