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One of life's greatest questions: "Abort, Retry, Fail?" ¬Thom Comstock's Computer

Any time a species has overpopulated it's environment to the point that said environment can no longer provide adequate resources, there are great die-backs which, if not completely decimating the species beyond it's capability to regenerate, serves the duel role of harvesting the weak and thus enhancing the genetic stock and of course, cutting the population to a sustainable level. I do believe that we are at that point, as a species, that this may well occur despite anything we do to delay it. My point is, (sorry to have taken so long getting to it) that the only way to continue growing as a species is to find an environment that can sustain unlimited growth. Hmmmm... where might we find one of dem?

Besides, The Single, Most Historically Noble And Rewarding Enterprises For Mankind has been The Exploration of Lands Just Beyond the Horizon. We are going to do it despite what small minds say Because It Is In Our Nature.
What would have happened if Cristobal Columbo hadn't pushed against all opposition in Europe. I've heard others here say that our children need feeding and educating. Had we stayed in europe would we still be dumping our garbage into the streets and burning witches? Would four out of ten children still not survive birth? Would 20 year olds still be walking around with most of their teeth rotting in their head's and bathing once a month, but only if they had head or pubic lice? When will we realize that the short term solutions, like the junkie with hir fix is a self-defeating proposition. That, no matter where we go, there we are. We need long-term solutions to the long-term problems facing Mankind. Most of those long-term solutions happen to be very expensive, and will necessitate sacrifice, but the rewards of growing up and becoming adults in this universe will be beyond our wildest dreams; just as our lives are beyond those of Aristotle, Galileo, or Newton. As Tsiolkovski said,"The earth is but the cradle of Mankind..." I'm sure someone here knows the rest.

As great a proponent of the expansion of man beyond any real or perceived boundaries, including that of gravity, I would not say that we've been overwhelmingly benefited on a material level by the space program. Yet! The natural rewards of long-term conquest are never instant. What are some of the natural rewards that the exploration of space promises? Well, let's look at what the necessities of long duration isolated travel between at first the planets and then the stars are. Perhaps we would need to be able to reuse most if not all of our resources. So we would naturally begin to get better at that. As we may already agree, expansion will be relatively slow so this will benefit those of our children still within earth's dwindling resource envelope, both on planet and in the increasingly predominantly industrialized, orbital niches. The jobs generated by the logistical support structure alone will demand a competetive approach to education. This is already occurring and the fat and lazy are falling behind. Necessity is the mother of invention. This is a social law as well with the thin and desperate third world with their necessity driven, finely honed work ethic coming to the fore as they outperform the hedonistic children of the decadent. It is not at all a judgement I make, but an anthropological observation. Those that too well adapt to their environment, are the first to go when that environment changes.

"Some people just dont like daylight- it makes them see too much."

They're not obsessed by anything, you see, and thats the deciding factor. They can't win against obsession. We care, They don't. We win.

I agree that on a national level we should unite, but as long as we're not at cross-purposes, the different technologies and methods that result from corporate competition is a very healthy process. Ask any savvy business leader how important his competitors are to his growth.

It occurs to me that we aren't being as gentle as we could. This organ of human communication(the Net) is forged by the pioneers and I have met the pioneers and they are us. Let us show a courtesy uncommon to Man and prove that humane is not a word to be despised or ridiculed. If we cannot say that we have walked in one another's moccasins(sp), let us not compound and embrace our ignorance by denying that those moccasins exist.
P.S. I am not exempting myself of considerable guilt.
I will speak in I statements here so as not to offend. It is hard now at 38 y.o. to comprehend that the experience of one twice my age shall count for more than mine; am I not a man already? But, my failure to see my mistake is an integral part of a very necessary ego and does not lessen me or my considerable experience. It does close my ears, and my eyes, and my mind; if I allow it. It is also equally true that those that are younger than I are not lessened by what experience I have, unless I, in jealosy or envy of their youth, refuse to teach. This too, is my loss; as by repeating what I have learned, I truly begin to understand. I must teach and remain forever teachable if I want to learn of life and love and what it is to be fully human. I often forget this. But, by repeating it...

Yes, perhaps it is a bit sad, but Man is by evolution design a devious, self-serving, thieving and cunning animal. It is easier to picture when you envision us in our natural environment, the savannah (we evolved there for several tens of millions of years). We all are when necessity demands. We can also be wonderfully cooperative and socially responsible animals too. I think many find this difficult to see for the simple reason that we have created for ourselves (also, no doubt quite natural for a sentient animal) an artificial environment (physically, socially, psychologically and perhaps most importantly, spiritually) and the stimulai to which we currently respond is not that for which we are so uniquely adapted. Thus, there are so many of us at cross-purposes. I think we each are capable of many beautiful and community enhancing contributions just as we are each of us also capable of malevolent and destructive responses to a confusing cacaphony? of signals and messages. Of course, I could be entirely off-base and have not one whit of an idea of what I speak as I just string words together like so many pretty beads. What do you think?

In the gardened regolith of the lunar lowlands (particularly the maria), the average depth of impact craters is in the 200m to 800m range. Of course, according to the studies of Lunar morphology done by Ronald Greeley of the Department of Geology and Center for Meteorite Studies, Arizona State University and similar studies done as 'Comparison of impact basins on Mercury, Mars, and the Moon.' Proc. Lunar Sci. Conf. 7th 3629-51 by Wood,C.A. and J.W. Head 1976 the relative density of impactia is greatest on the martian surface despite a ~2 millibar atmosphere. Despite that, Impact cratering is responsible for the generation of lunar regolith deposits. Lunar surfaces are constantly being fragmented by impact cratering at all scales. This constant pulverization, with the resultant secondary and tertiary ejecta has led to the formation of regolith deposits, the thickness of which is directly proportional to the age of the surface. The last major episode of lunar history is identified as the Copernican system, which includes all fresh, large craters that retain bright rays. Photogeologic mapping of some presumed mare lava flows superimposed on Copernican-age craters show that some heavy cratering may even have extended to relatively recent times (post ~ 2.0 aeons*) on the lunar surface.
* 1 aeon=1,000,000,000 years

Mars may be the more attractive destination. For many of us Mars will forever be entangled with the enchanting tales of Edgar Rice Borroughs, the eerily beautiful canals and bee guns of Ray Bradbury or more recently (and I hope more realistically), the Red, Green and Blue versions of Mars as portrayed by Kim Stanley Robinson. Mars is a cultural icon for western civilisation. Of course, as most anyone that has worked closely with the Space Program can attest; Luna would make much more sense as a first colony and for many more reasons than I choose to discuss here. But, there is one thing that makes Mars the only choice. It is the simple fact that the public relations people are so far successfully selling Mars after losing the same battle for Luna in the 70s. And I think that my first paragraph scratches the surface of the primary stimulus(the meteorite[above] definitely helped), romance. Now, if the American public and the international crowd are still buying the 'Red Planet' pitch after Pathfinder, any successful Mars Mission that doesn't want to meet the same fate as Apollo(cancellation) will, necessarily(by cost and to insure that it is perceived as permanent and ongoing) include a base. Most of the designs currently being considered include an unmanned mission to pre-cede (on a fast-track trajectory) the manned mission by several weeks or months. This 'Base' will use the indiginous atmosphere (CO²) and the regolith/Martian surface(ferric oxide, silicates and various species of hydrocarbon and hydroxide) to produce both liquid propellant and oxygen(necessary for breathing and as an oxidizer). This diminishes the need to carry all of the fuel and oxygen to Mars that will be necessary for the return. If this same base is to be used for future missions, it will need to be maintained by the occasional Human presence. Once we've gotten that far, I'm sure that even I could make a darned good case for the need for 24/7 maintanence.

We are hard-wired by hundreds of millions of years...
to struggle against competitors. When there are no other species that can compete(read war) against us, is it not natural for us to continue the very natural practice of perpetrating war, but now against the only animal left that may kill our babies or steal our food? Peace (in my humble opinion), is not only not possible, but something that would prove at least undesirable if not fatal. I wholeheartedly continue to be of the same opinion as I was when visiting Mr. Sagan and his wife for dinner at Phoebes in Syracuse, NY in 1975. He and I were debating the relative merits of actually sending high powered messages to the stars (CETI), as opposed to just listening (SETI). My point that night (LYNX, I was 16 at the time.) was that defenseless baby animals are instinctively quiet when Mom and Dad aren't around lest the neighborhood predator prematurely relieve them of their tiny souls. What I said to him was, (as close as I can remember)...

~What makes you think
that the cosmos is any less dangerous
and merciless (read savage)
than the jungles and savannahs
we so recently escaped?~
Yes, I see us as that tiny, defenseless, baby animal that, peeping as loudly as possible, has just once so far struggled from the nest and clumsily flown to the nearest branch just feet away. That little bird had better pay close attention to the half-alive insects (read bacteria on meteorite) that mommy brings and pray that hir talons grow quickly, cause the nest is getting small as s/he grows rapidly larger.
And, let's hope the neighborhood cat is nearsighted. Oh, and tone deaf in the 21cm hydrogen band.

I believe that Man is where he is supposed to be...
at this moment in history and that it is truly glorious; as is his future. But denying that we are animals with animal ways is denying some of what makes Man so beautiful. Nothing that exists, exists out of context with everything else and for everything there is a time. Eating meat because we can? Because we always have and do, silly! This is our nature. You seem to want to deny the reality that people pick their noses because you find it offensive. That has never stopped me(Yes, that's what I mean't). The pessimist finds in death an tragic end, an optimist a wonderful cycle.

Just as the only reason that we're here in North America right now is to draw parallels with the European continent. See my point? It's about evolution, not maintaining the status quo.

A thought; not to be taken too seriously: Life, even human life struggles to succeed, and just as the chick must leave the egg when the time comes Man must expand as this corner of the universe struggles to become self-aware. Isn't that what life is, a drive of the universe to be conscious of self? A jockeying for the best vantage point.

Mei-Ling (Gertrude),
You e-mailed me from my site and I came to visit and I found another Questioner like myself that had really found the same answers that I keep forgetting. That we all are but expressions of the Cosmos' evolution toward true consciousness of self. That we are sacred; as are the trees and rocks and hadrons and leptons of this universe. The Dancer and the Dance and the Song...ad infinitum. Thank you for being here . But , then, there are no coincidences, only the Dance. Thom.

As Humans...
we must be true to our choices and take moral and ethical responsibility for our behavior. Being animals doesn't forgive us our obligations as a social creature. But we are not the true judges and masters of ourselves. As much as we'd like to think so, we are not. We are a product of those forces that have shaped us from inanimacy some 3-5 thousand million years ago. The true judge is Nature, or God, or the Universe, or whatever word is used inadequately to communicate that purveyor of time and consequences and species survival and species extinction. We are ultimately true to our natures as much as some of our nature may disgust some among us simply because we are a product of our Nature. It may become a bit philosophic, but it stands up. Man, not least of all the Western Religions, have spent entirely too much time denying this. The only value judgment Nature makes is: does this attribute or that behavior enhance the chances of survival? Many of the most glorious and beautiful things about humans are those things that most enhance our survival. Probably the single most powerful of these is Love.

And I would be irresponsible if I didn't mention the other; Hate. But the duality of Nature, and thus of Man, and Man's ancient historical struggle with that duality is another topic.

E-mail the President of The United States of America and let him know that you support a Strong Space Program...
....Or, if you don't think that'll do ya any good get up of'n yer ass and go back to school and learn yerself some knowledge about leptons and hadrons and mass spectrometers and Hertzsprung-Russell main-sequence stellar evolution and Richard Feynman diagrams and Quantumchromodynamics and planetary morphology and public speaking and getting yourself security clearances or rocket propellants like hypergolic fuel cells and such or volunteer to start or teach a Science Club, or Debate Club, or Any Club at the local Elementary School. Or, if you still have more excuses as to why that too won't do any good, then just continue sitting there as you've been doing and tell us all the things that are wrong with us and the world and why there's nothing to be done to fix it and why if there is that it isn't in your job description to do it... God! Well, join the human race. Miguel De Cervantes' had the right idea. It's fortunate for us that it's the few Don Quiotés of the world that have the energy to accomplish their impossible dreams and not the vast hordes of armchair experts that have the energy to get up and move their Barca-loungers into their way.