Appendix 8: The Two Talmuds The "Talmud" as a source.
Part 1: Babylonian Talmud
Part 2: Jerusalem TalmudThe "Talmud" as a source.
Pro-names groups and individuals sometimes cite "the Talmud" to prove the pro-names arguments. In considering the Talmud as an authoratitive source, it becomes important to understand just exactly what the Talmud is and how the Jews view it. After all, they wrote it, preserved it (partially), and for centuries have criticized, modified and argued it.
The following statement, made by a Professor of Hebrew, is from a pro-names web site:The Names Yeshua and Yehoshua
by Dr. James Price, Professor of Hebrew [Temple Baptist Seminary, Chattanooga, TN]
"As far as the Talmud is concerned, it is evident that the old uncensored editions of the Talmud associated Jesus of Nazareth with the name Joshua. This is demonstrated by the following passage:
Sotah 47a: Our Rabbis have taught: Always let the left hand thrust away and the right hand draw near. Not like Elisha who thrust Gehazi away with both his hands (and not like "Joshua b. Perahiah who thrust one of his disciples away with both his hands). 11
Here, the editor's footnote reads:
[(11) MSS. And old editions read Jesus the Nazarene. . . .]"Here we have a Professor of the Hebrew language, quoting the Talmud to demonstrate that the Jews knew "Jesus" as "Joshua". This contradicts the arguments about the "name" being hidden or removed from scripture.
Dr. Price goes on to state:"(1) In the Greek Translation of the OT known as the Septuagint (LXX), the name Joshua is rendered *Iasous*=Jesus. (2) In the NT, Joshua is mentioned twice (Acts 7:45; Heb 4:8), and in both places the Greek NT spells the name *Iasous*= Jesus. Thus the Greek *Iasous* is the equivalent of Hebrew *Yehoshua*."
(Source: http://www.corp.direct.ca/trinity/yehoshua.html )This same Professor of Hebrew states that "Jesus" is the "equivalent of Joshua". This contradicts the pro-names argument that "Jesus" originated from the pagan name "Zeus". It also demonstrates the "translation" of names, a practice which the pro-names groups say can't be done.
Part 1: Babylonian Talmud:
What is Talmud Bavli (Babylonian Talmud)?
The Talmud Bavli (BT) is the Mishna plus the Babylonian gemara. It is much more complete than the Talmud Yerushalmi (JT), and the redaction is much more careful and precise. Still, it is by no means complete. The gemara only exists for 37 out of the 63 tractates of the Mishna. Why did these tractates remain without gemara in BT? The traditional answer is that the laws of Zeraim and Toharot (except Niddah) had no practical relevance; The agricultural laws were tied only to the land of Israel. In the diaspora these laws simply were of no use. The purity laws (except for family purity) were no longer applicable, because there was no longer a Temple and sacrificial system. One might think then that there would be no BT gemara on Qodashim - but there is. This is probably because the study of the sacrificial regulations is generally thought of as being on par with actually performing sacrifices.
In the usual printed editions, the BT comprises the full Mishna, the 37 gemaras, and the extra-canonical (minor) tractates; This comprises 5,894 pages, and is much more extensive than the JT.
The overall character of BT is encyclopedic. Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz states:
The Talmud is the repository of thousands of years of Jewish wisdom. And the Oral Law, which is as ancient and significant as the Written Law (Torah), finds expression therein. It is a conglomerate of law, legend, and philosophy, a blend of unique logic and shrewd pragmatism, of history and science, anecdote and humor.(Source: http://www.landfield.com/faqs/judaism/FAQ/03-Torah-Halacha/section-18.html faigin@shell.pacificnet.net (Daniel Faigin) Last Update April 18 1999 @ 03:40 AM faq-admin@faqs.org )
Part 2: Jerusalem Talmud
What is Talmud Yerushalmi (Jerusalem Talmud)?
The Talmud Yerushalmi, also known as the Jerusalem Talmud (JT), the Palestinian Talmud, Talmud Eretz Yisrael (Talmud of the Land of Israel) and Gemara de Eretz Yisrael, is the Mishna plus the Yerushalmi gemara. It is interesting to note that the JT that we have today is missing a huge amount of material. There is only commentary for the first four orders of the Mishna; The rest has somehow been lost to history. The JT gemara is also missing for tractate Avot and Eduyot, parts of Toharot and other sections as well. Despite extensive scholarship, it still is unclear why this material was not included in the final redaction of the JT.
Rabbi Yohanan bar Nappaha was the main redactor of the JT. It was redacted around 500 to 550 CE. Additionally, the name 'Jerusalem Talmud' is a misnomer, as it was most likely written in Northern Israel, specifically Tiberias.
In general, whenever the JT contradicts the Babylonian Talmud (BT), the law follows the BT. Only on matters where BT is silent or unclear does the authority of the JT prevail.
The absence of numerous Mishna tractates and chapters, the numerous self contradictions, as well as other internal evidence, suggests that the JT was _not_ in fact redacted in the proper sense of the word, but rather was a hasty collection of material. Many scholars believe that the reason for the ultimate acceptance of the BT rather than the JT had a lot to do with the power struggles between the two Jewish communities. Thus it can be argued that the poor preservation of the JT may be a result of its rejection rather than its cause.(Source: http://www.landfield.com/faqs/judaism/FAQ/03-Torah-Halacha/section-17.html faigin@shell.pacificnet.net (Daniel Faigin) Last Update April 18 1999 @ 03:40 AM faq-admin@faqs.org ).
Additional information about the above sources (emphasis ours):
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Part 3: Torah and Halachic Authority
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[Last Post: Sat Apr 10 11:07:09 US/Pacific 1999]This posting is an attempt to answer questions that are continually asked on soc.culture.jewish. It was written by cooperating laypeople from the various Judaic movements. You _should not_ make any assumption as to accuracy and/or authoritativeness of the answers provided herein. In all cases, it is always best to consult a competent authority--your local rabbi is a good place to start.
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