Frequently Asked, and Other Questions
What happens when we die?
Question:
"I have been speaking with a Jehovah's Witness. He claims that the Christian view of the dead as conscious is false. He said that the Bible clearly tells us that the dead remain unconscious in the grave until Christ's Second Coming. He cited John 5:28-29 as proof.
Can you please expain what this passage means? I don't lack for verses which show the consciousness of the dead. However, just what Jesus means in John 5:28-29 I don't know. If I am to help the Jehovah's Witness I will need an alternate explanation for this passage.'Response:
The "state of the dead" is an interesting topic of itself, but more so because it goes directly to both the existence and nature of "heaven" and "hell" , the nature of our "soul" and what our lives will be like after our physical deaths.
Our purpose in examining any question of doctrine, according to scripture, should be to seek the truth. Whether that supports or contradicts any particular denomination's view should be incidental and secondary.
"Let not mercy and truth forsake you: bind them about your neck; write them upon the table of your heart:" (Pro 3:3).
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Jhn 8:32).
There are a number of Jehovah Witness's doctrines for which, we could show scriptures to refute them. However, it appears that the majority of scriptures dealing with the state of the dead, support your friend's view. There are more than a few Christians who also share this particular understanding with the JWs even though it differs from the mainstream view.
As you consider our response, please understand we are not joining the argument but simply showing other scriptures relating to John 5:28-29. Your friend may bring these up in the future.
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice," (Jhn 5:28).
Notice John's use of "hour" to refer to Christ's second coming, which reflects Christ's own words:
"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Mat 24:36).
"But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mar 13:32).Christ says in John 5 that people are "in the graves". Compare this to Mark 13:32, in which Christ says "the angels . . . are in heaven". The statement further indicates that "all that are in the graves" can not hear Christ's voice until that "hour" comes.
This agrees with Ecc. 9:5: "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything ..." -- the RSV translates it, "the dead know nothing . . ."
We also notice that the dead are "in the graves" at the time Christ was speaking (30-33 AD) and are "in the graves" at the time they hear "his [v.27, the Son of man] voice".
This agrees with Jhn 3:13, "And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".
Some commentaries dismiss Christ's statement in Jn. 5 as being merely figurative, in other words, he didn't really mean what he said, he meant something else. When we refuse to believe what Christ said is when we begin to get ourselves into trouble and that is exactly the point Christ makes in verse 24 when he speaks of "hearing and believing" which takes us from being under the death penalty, to eternal "life".
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (Jn. 5:24).
Sometimes God (in the OT) and Christ (in the NT) repeat a single statement for emphasis. Sometimes they say more than one thing in a single statement. And sometimes they make two similar statements with different messages.
John 5 contains examples of all three.
The connected subjects of "voice" and "life" are mentioned three times, in verses 24, 25 and 28-29.
1. Verse 24 is describing spiritual conversion, which occurs during our physical life.
2. Verse 25 describes two "times", or "hours". One "now is", the present tense. The other "is coming", a future time or "hour".
In both of these "hours", "the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.""Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." (Jn. 5: 25).
In the present tense, we which are physically alive but spiritually dead, can believe and become converted, passing from the death penalty to "life", representing a "spiritual" resurrection or "rebirth", or a being "changed". This is the same meaning as verse 24.
In the future tense, those who are "dead" physically will come forth out of the graves:
A) Some will be raised in an "incorruptible" or spirit body like Christ's:
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1Cr 15:52).
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." (1Jo 3:2).
B) Some will be resurrected to flesh and blood:
"Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves," (Eze 37:12-13).
"And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army." (Eze 37:6, 10).
(see also all verses 1-14)
[Notice that Rev. 20:5-6, refers to "the first resurrection", implying a second.]So in verse 25, we can see the spiritually dead "hearing" and being converted to "life" and we can see the physically dead, being resurrected to either a physical life or eternal life.
3. In verses 28-29, Christ does not use the term "dead", but refers to those "in the graves". This excludes those who could be physically alive but "spiritually dead". Obviously these "in the graves" would all be physically dead. Some are "spiritually" alive as they are resurrected from the graves "to the resurrection of life". Others are "spiritually dead" as they are resurrected "to the resurrection of *decision".
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of *damnation." (Jhn 5:29).
[*Note: The KJV has "damnation", but the Greek word "krisis" literally means "decision" (either for or against).]
This resurrection "to make a decision" corresponds to those in Eze. 37, being resurrected with physical bodies and being brought to Jerusalem, the place where God's law will be taught and the people can make their decision between "life and death" (Deu. 30:15, 19)."And many people shall go and say, Come you, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." (Isa 2:3).
"And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." (Mic 4:2).
Some of the other scriptures indicating that the dead are not in heaven or an everburning hell:
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 6:23).
[This also challenges the concept of an immortal soul.]
"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." (1Cr 15:53).
"But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain." (1Cr 15:13-14).
[This begs the question, what is the point of a resurrection and some of the prophecies of Revelation, if everyone dead is already in heaven or hell?]
[It also indicates that if there is no future resurrection, then we are wasting our time.]
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." (1Cr 15:18).
[Being "asleep" indicates a state of unconsciousness]"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (1Cr 15:20, 22, 23).
[This says that Christ was the first to be resurrected to eternal life, and all others will be at his second coming. This indicates that Shem, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, the Prophets and all the other "righteous" mentioned in Heb. 11 have not yet been given "life". ]"These all died in faith, not having received the promises,. . .
But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he has prepared for them a city.
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:" (Hbr 11:13, 16, 39).
[Even many years after Christ's resurrection, these had still not received "life".]
[Notice that those who "died", past tense, are waiting for a reward, which he describes as a city, which will descend from heaven, future tense.]
"Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Rev 3:12).
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Rev 21:2).
"For, behold, the day comes, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that comes shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."
And you shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, says the Lord of hosts." (Mal 4:1, 3).
[This indicates that the wicked become ashes, not tortured forever.]
"For as you have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yes, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been." (Oba 1:16).
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." (Ecc 9:5).
"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." (Mat 27:50, 52, 53).
[Since none of these "saints" gave any accounts of being at the throne of God, they must have been "asleep" in their graves.
Since there is no mention of their ascending up into heaven, they must have been resurrected to flesh, like Lazarus and the others whom Christ resurrected.]"Your dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, you that dwell in dust: for your dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter you into your chambers, and shut your doors about you: hide yourself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
For, behold, the Lord comes out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain." (Isa 26:19-21).
[According to Isaiah, the dead "dwell in the dust" until the return of Christ.]"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (Jhn 6:44).
[The "raising up" corresponds to 1 Ths. 4:17.]"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1Th 4:17).
"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." (Zec 14:4).
"Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:6).
And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Rev 5:10).
You mentioned that you "don't lack for verses which show the consciousness of the dead", so we won't address those here, but if you have questions about them, we'll be happy to discuss the opposing opinions on those.
As we mentioned above, we are not joining an argument, but simply presenting additional scriptures relevant to the discussion of the state of the dead.
We hope that this will help, if in no other way than to better understand your friend's view.