RL teaching not being _quite_ enough to eat all my free time, I'm trying to start up the spirit/umbra rap sessions and classes that Sepdet announced IC in Moot some months ago. The first session will be this coming MONDAY around 5:30-6 MUSHtime. Depending on attendance, we'll discuss the whys and wherefores of spirits, fetishes, and the parts of the umbra, and maybe we can go into the caern umbra and get some hands-on. Future plans, such as they are, include a few spirit ONS's designed to meet and interact with various kinds of spirits, and to explore parts of the umbra around the caern and nearby town. All Garou are welcome, although cubs, please get elders' permission to be taught by a non-tribesmate. (You can pretend you heard a Galliard or someone mentioning the class; I'll try to spread the news IC this week.) Pass the word IC and OOC. GMs--if this goes off well, I'd love to start doing these classes every two weeks, and would be thrilled if anyone wanted to design a ONS to torture us. :)
Oh, if you're trying to find my other logs, I've put up a buncha new ones lately. Finally.
Center of the Caern
Obvious exits:
Rock Slab Windy Spot WaterFall Steam Vents
Sepdet moves to the center and sits down carefully with her back to the pillar, raising a hand to the wolf up on the rock and to Esther as she arrives.
By the steam vents, Dylan comes into the caern from the southwest.
In the windiest area, Quick rises, shaking his ruff, and bounds off his rick, approaching the center.
In the windiest area, Quick heads into the center.
Quick has arrived.
By the steam vents, Dylan walks up the Valley, smiling without surprise as he sees his packmate at the center.
Quick looks you over.
By the steam vents, Dylan heads into the center.
Dylan has arrived.
Sepdet steeples her hands on her lap, grinning up at Dylan. ~Need a Galliard,~ she mutters, ~to call in the stragglers, the bored, the tired cubs yearning to get a clue.~
By the waterfall, Esther follws Sepdet towards the pale granite finger at the center of the Caern.
By the waterfall, Esther heads into the center.
Esther has arrived.
Dylan laughs softly as he hears Sepdet's comment, and comes to settle at Sepdet's side.
From the rock outcropping, Collin makes his way down the trail from the northern wall of the valley.
From the rock outcropping, Collin heads into the center.
Collin has arrived.
Collin comes down the trail towards the center and such, heading for Sepdet. He yips a greeting to those in the area in general.
Sepdet grins wryly at Dylan. ~You may have to help translate my gibberish in words they can understand. I keep trying to think of simple ways to explain What It All Means, but...I have a hard enough time translating instincts into words.~
"I think," Dylan says, amused, "that this is the first time that someone has relied on me to put something into words more easily understood."
Sepdet's mouth quirks in a faint grin. ~You can at least say it in "English".~ she explains. She glances around, smiling at various faces. ~I'll give everyone a few more minutes to get here, then we'll start.~
Collin starts shifting on upwards towards his Homid form as he gets closer, stretching out a little as he does.
By the waterfall, Edgewalker comes down the trail from the rim above.
By the waterfall, Edgewalker heads into the center.
Edgewalker has arrived.
You paged Collin, Esther, Dylan, and Edgewalker with 'As Sepdet starts using the catch phrases I use every damn day when I teach RL. :)'.
Edgewalker trots down into the caern with an unusual spring to his step. Greetings all.
By the waterfall, Defends-Wolves comes down the trail from the rim above.
By the waterfall, Defends-Wolves heads into the center.
Defends-Wolves has arrived.
Defends-Wolves trots down toward the caern center, ears flicking in greeting to the others gathered.
Esther lowers herself a little stiffly, settling cross-legged to the ground.
Sepdet leans back against the column of rock, sitting comfortably with Dylan next to her. ~Okay,~ she says at last, eyes glancing thoughtfully over healing wounds and less-familiar faces. ~I'm going to try and give people an introduction to spirits, and the umbra tonight, just talking about it. A lot of you already know plenty, some more than I do, maybe--~ she grins over at Esther--~in some areas. So I hope this turns into a discussion. Later, I want to start going into the umbra and giving you some experiences with different facets of the nearby area. But the biggest problem we've always had is that Garou tend to jump claws bared into situations as soon as we're barely equipped to deal with them. It's nice to have some background, later, as leisure allows us to think.~
Edgewalker pads quietly over to lay beside Dylan.
Dylan smiles at Edgewalker and reaches a hand out to scritch him as he listens to Sepdet.
Sepdet continues lecturing, looking a bit sheepish about it. ~First I will tell you a little of the history and the _idea_ of what spirits are. This is very hard for most to grasp, and unless you are a theurge, probably unnecessary. What will help all of you is _how_ to deal with spirits and the umbra you all will meet or tread at some point. But bear with me. Also, to those who do not know Mother's tongue perfectly--I apologize, but these things are too hard for me to put into human words. If something doesn't make sense, speak up. My packmate here, Dylan, can usually translate my theurge-jargon into human terms no matter how weird I start getting.~ She grins.
Dylan laughs and nods.
Defends-Wolves sits back on his haunches next to Edgewalker, nudging him gently in greeting with his muzzle. He swivels his ears toward Sepdet, listening quietly.
Esther smiles slightly.
Collin snickers a bit, muttering in aside, "Man. He's gonna get *megakudos* for that. That's really, really hard. Translating Sepdet. Sounds like am ovie title."
Sepdet chuckles drily. ~Oh. Hm. Does everyone here know each other?~ She kicks a foot towards Collin. ~This is Collin, ragabash cub of the Bigmouth Striders.~
Collin heys! "I'm not a bigmouth! Just because I'm capable of sticking my foot *in* my mouth doesn't mean anything!"
Sepdet smirks and pauses a moment to scan reactions, questions, or comments in eyes or faces before continuing.
Defends-Wolves lolls his tongue. Never would have guessed. He chuffs amiably in the cub's direction.
Esther glances about, pausung to peer at Collin, unsure if she's met him.
Dylan nods gravely to Collin. "You might just have very small feet," he suggests.
Edgewalker bats his tail on the ground in amusement.
Collin sighs at Dylan, looking pained. "I know. It's a real pain to get bowling shoes."
"Another time," Dylan says, "You must tell me about how one bowls shoes, and why, but for now I think we have other business."
Collin nods to Dylan, "We'll do that." he looks over at Sepdet now.
In the windiest area, Alexandra comes down the valley from the northeast.
In the windiest area, Bites Back comes down the valley from the northeast.
In the windiest area, Alexandra heads into the center.
Alexandra has arrived.
In the windiest area, Bites Back heads into the center.
Bites Back has arrived.
Esther grins at the interchanges going on, then also returns her attention towards Sepdet.
Sepdet takes a deep breath, focussing herself for a moment as she tries to crystallize gut feelings into speech. ~The first thing,~ she says, ~Is spirits. I find once you understand what they are, the umbra, fetishes, and all the rest make more sense. So what are they?~ She looks around.
From the rock outcropping, Seeker makes his way down the trail from the northern wall of the valley.
Esther adjusts her jaw a little. ~Spirits, or spirit?~ she asks.
Bites Back arrives with Alexandra, sticking close to the young Strider woman, ducking slightly behind her when Sepdet looks his way. He gives Sepdet a big grin.
Collin looks over at Bites, then blinks and looks back to Sep.
Sepdet cocks her head at Esther. ~I meant spirits, but either will help here.~
Alexandra looks around and waits to see what others say....
From the rock outcropping, Seeker heads into the center.
Seeker has arrived.
Edgewalker blinks and ponders, then offers timidly that spirits are beings closer to the true nature of Gaia...
Defends-Wolves pats his tail quietly against the ground, chuffing softly to the new arrivals.
Esther nods, and says no more, waiting to see if the cubs and Cliaths will come up with some more answers first.
Sepdet grins a little at Edgewalker. ~The Stargazer goes to the heart of the thing,~ she observes lightly.
Sepdet glances around, ~But of course, that's so simple you're still left wondering what exactly that means. Any more thoughts?~ She nods over to the Strider contingent, passing a smile in their general direction.
Bites Back looks stunned by the answer. "Closer?" he whispers.
Collin wiggles his fingers over at Alexandra, then grins at Sepdet again.
Seeker chuffs a greeting, then moves to sit with his pack alpha and tribemates.
Alexandra nods to Bites Back. "Closer. Spirits have....usually...not been trapped in physical forms as we are...they are free to express their nature without the limits of the material." She suddenly realizes she's blathering in Sepdet's class, and blushes.
Esther grins sympathetically at Alexandra's discomfort.
Seeker nods.
Collin takes a seat on the ground, just kind of quiet and grinning.
Sepdet nods encouragingly to Alexandra. ~Good. That's a part of it too, an important part.~ She turns her attention to Esther hopefully.
Edgewalker listens quietly, ears erect and head up.
Bites Back doesn't seem at all cheered by Alexandra's explanation. He looks back to Alexandra a minute later and quietly asks, "Spirits are better than us?"
Alexandra shakes her head and murmurs softly to Bites Back, "Not better...different. Like different tribes, different moons......spirits need us as much as we need them."
Collin peers at Bites, "Do you see any spirits walking around on *this* side?" he grins.
Alexandra giggles at Collin's question and murmurs innocently, "Other than Coyote, you mean?"
Collin grins at Alex, "He doesn't count. He's weird."
Alexandra nods, grinning. "Yeah..."
Sepdet furrows her brow. ~Not so much better. Purer. And spirit and realm are two halves of the same world. And Garou are a special case, because we belong on _both_ sides, which few things do anymore. I'll get to the Severing in a second, though.~
Esther's mouth twitches a little. ~I've heard a ferw explainations. Guess spirit's like language. You can learn about its structure, learn nouns, and verbs and that. But that's not what it is. You only understand it by experiencing it. It's something that people are born with. Language is a part of them. Same with spirit. Some languages are better for talking about certain things than others. Same with places in the spirit world, where some concepts seem to be more important. And so, I guess, spirits are like sentances... or poems, would be better. Language with structure.~ She shrugs, half embarassed.
Dylan gives Esther a sudden smile, surprised and pleased with the image.
Alexandra smiles warmly at Esther, gesturing vaguely....
Bites Back blinks at Esther in bewilderment.
From afar, to Seeker, Sepdet, and Bites Back, Alexandra signs <She approaches understanding mdw nTr.>
Sepdet listens very carefully to Esther, since language, is, in fact, a concept she learned later in life than some here. She nods firmly, after several moments sifting through this, and smiles faintly at Alexandra. ~Language. That works. Unfortunately I can only give you words tonight. But we'll get to experience later, and y'all do that elsewhere, anyway. So.~ She gives the strange shimmering column behind her a pat, as if it were also part of the discussion, and continues. ~Sounds like you already know what I'm gonna tell you, though maybe you don't all know you know it. For what it's worth, this is how I've been trained to see spirits--both from an old mentor who'd seen a lot of the world, and my own small forays out into the umbra.~
Sepdet takes a deep breath. ~Spirits are, in essence, life stripped of form, or never had flesh. They are the idea, the intent, the "feel" of a thing. They are souls. They are the _essential_ patterns, ideas, and beings from which all the world is derived: the prototypes, the originators, the embodiment of each creature, force, and idea that is. Some are as solid as an owl or a tree or a mountain. Others are as abstract as change, madness, or travel. And there are kinds all between these like fire, light, death, quartz. All of them are alive, after a fashion, but many of them think or exist in a very different way than we do--some think like animals, others in the slow growth of change, like the movement and rumblings of the earth in this world. Many are beyond our comprehension altogether.~
Alexandra perks, listening with fascination.
Esther listens, one eyebrow lifting slightly.
Sepdet looks around after that mouthful and chuckles. ~The other way to see them is to say, 'they're not-realm', and then to get into the history of how Realm, Umbra, and Gauntlet formed in the first place. But have I totally lost you, there?~
Long distance to Dylan: Sepdet plays with words, trying to force White Wolf into making sense. ;)
From afar, Dylan laughs.
Collin looks around real quick, to see who's wearing a confused expression.
Esther stirs. ~They /are/ light, travel, and so on? Or that is just the way we see 'em, because that's the way /we/ think?~
Alexandra smiles and murmurs, "And God was alone...so It split tself into infinite parts so It would have companions.
Edgewalker listens attentively, his tail wagging slowly. How much are their images our own creations?
Sepdet grins at Esther. ~I think they are, because they're the embodiment of ideas, and that's some of the ways we think about things. I have actually met a spirit that was pure Travel once...hard to describe. That's all it was. But you're right, it starts getting tricky trying to tell whether what we see is what they are, or whether that just happens to be how we see them.~ She winks at Dylan and Casper. ~I usually leave that to the Stargazers.~
Seeker looks at Esther. Some represent abstract concepts in that manner.
Defends-Wolves believes what we see is only one aspect of them. They may well have other forms we are not capable of percieving, much less understanding.
Seeker looks at Sepdet, interested. How did you get it to stop and talk to you?
Alexandra joins in Seeker's curiosity.
Sepdet chuckles at Seeker. ~I put my foot on it, and started moving. It went to some of the places that mean a lot to me, and added them to itself...I think.~ She shakes her head. ~I'll tell you if I ever find it again. The only trouble was it left me on another continent, and I had t'call my uncle to find some moonbridges and bring me home.~ She looks sheepish.
Esther eyes Sepdet, with sudden wariness for a Strider that thinks of somewhere as 'home'.
You paged Esther with 'Woops, that was a player-slip.'.
Alexandra giggles softly, murmuring, "Wish he were *my* uncle..."
Seeker mmm. Interesteing.
Sepdet snorts. ~No you don't. He put me to bed and made me contemplate sitting-still for three days.~
Collin laughs.
Alexandra grins brazenly at Sepdet. "Only 3 days, Teacher?"
Collin says "Man. I think I would of gone nuts."
Dylan is listening to Sepdet with interest and amusement.
Pack> Dylan says "... which is a truly lousy pose. Woo."
Collin looks over at Alexandra, "Don't give her any ideas. If you do, I'll have to find a way to hurt you. Yeah. That's it." he grins.
Alexandra grins wickedly at Collin, then does her best to look....innocent, yeah, that's it. Innocent.
Collin snorts a little at Alexandra.
Esther settles back, lapsing into silence again.
Sepdet flaps a hand. ~So. Well...we can start arguing about what they look like and their inner nature, but quite frankly, that's all the wisdom I can give you on what they are--beyond that I'm groping right there with you. But I can tell you how my uncle taught me that they came into being.~
Alexandra perks eagerly.
Collin grins, "Now this isn't something I've heard yet either."
Sepdet brings her hands together. ~Long ago the world was one. Spirits and creatures were all together, the infinite variety and forms and facets of Gaia into which she shaped herself, using the Triat to make, order, and remove all things in turn. It was like a dance of life, bigger even than the one we now see, with the Wheel of seasons and the shifting of earth and seas, enless variety in renewal and change. Nothing was altogether destroyed; if it was damaged, eaten, or weakened to death it did what spirits do now: go dormant, or be changed or absorbed into a new form. But then death came, and the Severing came. Some say it happened when the Wyrm was trapped in the Weaver's web, and both of them went mad and began to fight each other, instead of complement each other. Some say it was because the Weaver began to abuse the privilege of Naming which Gaia gave it, and it started to separate off some things here, some there, and that all the other Realms and parts of the umbra are more examples of the same thing.~
Sepdet continues somberly, ~Whatever the cause, the world was ripped in two. Some spirits and creatures--the patterns, the 'ideas' such as I have described--were drawn to one side of the gauntlet. Others were the dense matter, the solid things by which these ideas create forms, substances, events, and living creatures. Today these halves are very far apart, so much that sometimes things that exist in one world have changed so much they seem to have little relation to the other. Only a few spirits, and a few spiritually-gifted creatures, are able to cross the barrier, the Gauntlet, between them. And that's where we are today.~
By the waterfall, Windsoul comes down the trail from the rim above.
By the waterfall, Windsoul heads into the center.
Windsoul has arrived.
Esther gives Windsoul a grin, as another of her packmates comes to join the lesson.
Sepdet rubs her chin thoughtfully, again scanning for questions or bewilderment. ~All right. That's kinda the history and...the basic ideas I wanted to get across before we start getting into details. Now there are many things we could talk about: different parts of the Umbra, the Triat, different spirits you may meet, fetishes and talens, totems, caerns, or why and how spirits work with us and what they need and what they give and how they die. But you ask. I'll try to answer. And others who have their own insights or perspectives, answer too.~
Windsoul steps into the caern, his eyes skimming over each of the others. Spotting his packm and tribemates, he decides to hang around. He moves in Esther's direction and chuffs a greeting before sitting to his haunches.
Seeker has disconnected.
Long distance to Alexandra: Sepdet peers. Gods, this is complicated. I suppose the meaning of life is like that. :)
Dylan looks over the group, listening. He says softly, to Sepdet, "You need a translater the way I need a subway pass, I think."
Edgewalker wonders why spirits deal with the Garou. Why do they care to even notice us?
Sepdet bursts into a quick trill of laughter at her packmate. ~That's just 'cause you know what I'm talkin' about, you've been with me through most of it.~ Then she smiles, latching onto the next question. As usual, though, she looks around to see if anyone else has a reply before she pontificates her own views.
Seeker has connected.
"It varies, yes?" Dylan says to Edgewalker. "From spirit to spirit. Some care, some are curious, some will only listen if it concerns them...we live in the same worlds, we have intersections. And some do not, of course, care to notice us at all."
Collin grins and rubs his hands together, snicking a bit as well. "I have a question."
Alexandra smiles, listening and making mental notes.
From afar, to Sepdet and Dylan, Esther suddenly erks, having come up with the idea of a spirit that is the embodiment of teaching.
From afar, to Sepdet and Esther, Dylan grins.
Sepdet nods grimly. ~And it's best to leave those alone, or you're liable to get flung forty yards up in a redwood and impaled there. My packmate Joseph still frets at me for that one.~ She looks over at Collin and quirks an eyebrow. ~Hm?~
You paged Esther and Dylan with 'The trouble is trying to come up with a definition of spirits that covers all those in the Whtie Wolf material. Theirs doesn't, quite. :)'.
Alexandra blinks, then giggles softly. "Hmmmm....wonder how I can find one of them..."
Collin asks, "There are things in the Spirit world that you'll never see here, right? And there are things here you'll never see there, right? How was it determined what ended up on which side?"
Windsoul sniffs the air softly, and he stands. He looks to Esther and Seeker, his packmates, bidding them, and the others gathered here, a farewell before he goes to hunt for the evening.
Windsoul has disconnected.
Sepdet purses her lips. ~Well...like I said, it tended to be 'ideas' and the spirits that most embodied something that ended up on one side, and 'forms', or, like, stuff that are based off these ideas on the other. But I think it was a bit arbitrary. The weaver sets up grids and lines and walls, but there's not always an obvious reason for them. That's part of the problem.~ She glances over at Casper. ~But let me deal with the 'Gazer's question a second, because it's another one I've been chewing on a lot.~
Edgewalker looks to Sepdet expectantly.
Collin grins and nods a little.
Sepdet says, ~It's a question of what we give them, and they give us, if you want to be cynical about it. I just like to see it as a dance. As Dylan says, not all spirits give a damn about us. But many do.~ The Strider grins, then elaborates. ~Respect, feeding, and care for a spirit, which are all things done by the soul and spirit of a Garou, help strengthen a spirit. Also, by making a connection from this solid world to theirs, you bring them a little closer to the way things were before the severing. In return, they gift you or a caern or pack with some of the powers, ideas, or forces they embody: Deer's swiftness, or Magpie's insights. Using them gives them purpose, and purpose gives them power. That is the reason why spirits choose to adopt caerns, packs, or allow themselves to be bound into fetishes--which also helps give them a solid, physical form on this side of the Gauntlet, something that they lost at the Severing.~
Edgewalker is pleased with the answer.
Seeker nods.
Sepdet grins down at him, then looks back at Collin. ~Short answer for yours was, teacher donno, and would rather answer something she do know. Anybody else got a better answer for him?~ She grins.
Alexandra looks at her staff with a half-smile, then goes back to leaning on it.
Collin laughs, "Hah! I stuuuumped the teeeacher." he grins.
Alexandra grins at Collin. "Maybe some of them were all taking a vacation on one side when the split happened?"
Dylan gives Collin a small, lop-sided smile. "Maybe because if things were so predictable, some young ones would get to thinking they understood all there was in the spirit realm, and would die before midnight. It is better to be reminded of incomprehenisbility before it is too late."
Esther's attention drifts a little, from the slightly distant, almost glazed look to her eyes.
Collin says to Dylan, "Don't worry. I find myself incomprehensible at times too." he winks, then looks back to Sepdet.
Sepdet quips, ~And I find him incomprehensible most of the time. And he doesn't understand a word I say. It's a very efficient cub-elder relationship.~ Her eyes crinkle in another faint smile.
Collin says to Sepdet, "Oh, I understand perfectly. I just try not to let on." he chuckles.
Seeker snorts quietly.
Defends-Wolves lolls his tongue in a lupine grin.
Collin dohs! "Well, there goes that ploy. Damn. Me and my *big* mouth."
Sepdet gives him a very grave look, as if all her worst fears were realized, and then looks around once more. ~Anyone else want to try stumping me?~ she asks lightly.
Collin mock-sighs, then goes quiet, grinning.
Edgewalker wonders after a time if there are things akin to cultures in the spirit world?
Sepdet looks surprised at the thought, and considers it for a while. ~You know, there are, though I never thought of it that way,~ she replies finally. ~Rats, strangely enough, are the ones that come to mind first. They don't exist singly very often, but as a community. They have certain ways of doing things, like the nights when it's time for the to run all over the city and have scavenger hunts, or the nights when they all hole up in one old building in the umbra that suits 'm, and seethe around for hours. I never could quite tell what they thought they were doing, but I guess a child of Owl wouldn't anyway.~ She dips her eyes. ~And I've seen owls come together after years apart and look at each other, and greet each other a certain way, and pass news of all they've seen. Other spirits exist in very different ways, so 'culture' doesn't really fit what they do. Do wolves have 'culture'? Yes, but you have to define it very differently from the way most humans do.~
Seeker wrinkles his nose at the mention of rats.
Sepdet summarizes, ~They have customs. They have habits. Snakes like riddles; other spirits get irritated by politeness, pleasantries, or any other fancy words; they just want truth, frankness, and bluntness.~
Esther blinks a little. ~Is there an overall plan? So, the Triat was in balance. That just /happened/? The Severing just /happened/? If there /isn't/ a plan, why are we all so worried about the way we're meant to behave, and if there /is/ then clearly Gaia is just a part of it, not the controlling force... or we wouldn't need to be doing all this fighting. So what /is/ controlling it? Or is all this 'Combat the Wyrm' just a test?~ She grins, as she tosses that little theological grenade into things.
You paged Esther with 'Oo. :)'.
Dylan chuckles softly at Esther's grenade, but restrains himself from taking it on immediately, waiting to see if anyone else would like it.
Dylan pages to Sepdet and Esther: /Now/ you're talking my language. :)
From afar, Collin giggles. Collin thinks: "I wonder if there's a spirit of 'coolness' Mmmmnn..." ;)
You paged Collin with 'It's called Boopsie. :)'.
By the steam vents, Mark comes into the caern from the southwest.
From afar, Collin laughs.
Collin pages: Boopsie? Betty BOOP? NOOOOO!
Sepdet sighs. ~I think the Severing was definitely an accident, Esther. Things are out of balance. Less an less of the Umbra is truly alive and aware anymore--there's all the inert bits, the structure, that's just as static as stuff this side. There's too much decay, too much pattern and rot and corruption: the planet's dying. Everything spirit tends to embody some idea. We're half spirit. Our idea is to stop the forces of Wyrm and, sometimes, Weaver that are choking and wrecking things too much, now. So that's our goal, and we have laws, customs, and our very bodies to help us do that.~
Edgewalker asks if he may, why the fate of the Realm, which seems tiny really, has such a profound effect on the vastness of the Umbral whole?
By the steam vents, Mark looks curiously towards the conversation in the center.
Sepdet chuckles drily. ~As for control...Gaia broke herself into pieces and facets, and gave 'em a life of their own, long ago. If she hadn't done that, there wouldn't be change, choice, opportunity, or possibility. But it also gave us the opportunity to really screw it up. I don't know how to prove Gaia to you, except to tell you to look around. Words can only reach so far.~ Casper's question catches her up short, and she has to think again.
Dylan says to Esgewalker, "But they are halves of each other. What is size, to that?"
By the steam vents, Mark heads into the center.
Mark has arrived.
Sepdet's face quiets a little, as if this question hurts her. ~There's another part to that,~ she says softly, though she seems more reluctant to go on.
Dylan tips his head toward Sepdet, not surprised.
Edgewalker pages to Seeker, Collin, Mark, Alexandra, Defends-Wolves, Sepdet, Esther, Dylan, and Bites Back: blech, gotta run.
Edgewalker has disconnected.
Sepdet looks at her hands. ~Um. I've seen some things I can't really put into words. Including...~ she grimaces... ~including the end of all this. I can't say much about it. But I can say this. It looked to me like someday, there will be a time when the Severing is reversed. It'll all draw back together. Wyrrm and Weaver and hate and love and despair and everything else were all wrapped up in each other, and the only thing that didn't exist then was Hope, becuase, well, when time's over, there's nothing else to hope for. Maybe it's truth I saw. Maybe it was just a metaphor, or a possibility. It shook my whole world, and I'm still coming to grips with all I Saw in that vision. But it taught me something very important.~
Defends-Wolves has disconnected.
Alexandra leans forward...
Mark says "When the Triat was whole, there was no gauntlet, no realm and umbra, just one whole. When the Triat is again whole, tehre will once again be one whole."
Esther just waits, quietly, to see if Sepdet is going to say any more.
Sepdet sighs. ~In the end, maybe it doesn't matter. In the long view, all that we do may really only be a tiny piece of everything. But the important thing to learn from that isn't futility. This is our realm, our Gaia, our corner of the universe, all we have. To itself, it is important. To itself--it's as important as the whole world. And what we do may not really matter a million years from now. But it does make a difference right now, right here, to our world, our caern, our forest, our kin, and your children. This is ours. It's what we make of it.~
Collin blinks a few times.
Sepdet grins faintly. ~If a man lives on an island and has no boat, there may be a million islands in the sea, but it's his island he needs to worry about, and whether the storms are tearing it apart.~
In a voice that is, for her, unusually soft, Esther says, ~I've thought about it myself. I decided, in the end, that we are planting seeds. We're in the autumn of Gaia. We're entering winter, I think. But the seeds we plant now will be what survives the winter, to grow in the spring.~
Sepdet swallows and nods at Esther. ~That's truth,~ she responds sharply. ~That's what I feel. But now we're getting into stuff we can't know again here, just worry about.~ She smiles wistfully. ~It never occured to me we had a whole caern of Stargazers.~
Dylan says, to Esther, and from his tone it sounds as though he is quoting, "I decided that in a nuclear holocaust, I wanted to be planting corn and squash. After, there will be others beings of some kind. They'll still need to eat."
Sepdet pages all: Heh. Reference, Dylan? :)
Dylan pages to Seeker, Collin, Mark, Alexandra, Sepdet, Esther, and Bites Back: Chrystos. "No Rock Scorns Me As Whore," _This Bridge Called My Back_. He may tell you IC, though. :)
Alexandra smiles. "Maybe that's the secret of this place, Teacher...that it inspires these kinds of thoughts."
Mark says "The last battle will be our rite of passage. Not for one of us, but for us all. If we are ready, we will begin the work we were made for"
Sepdet glances at Dylan, muttering, ~Sometimes the humans still see best. We feel. They _think_.~
Mark says "They think because they have forgotten how to feel. There course is not ours."
Alexandra glances over toward Mark and gestures lazily.
Collin looks over at Mark, then over at Sepdet. He hehs.
Alexandra pages to Seeker and Sepdet: Is that a philodox...or a pedant?
Dylan gives Mark a steady look. "Are you easy with generalizing about five billion individuals? Some think. Some feel. Like us. We have been given a great deal that they have not. Perhaps, if any of us are left to see it in a hundred years, we will think that they have been given a great deal that we lack, as well."
Pack> Sepdet always gets the impression that Alexandra's giving someone the finger in slow motion when she "gestures lazily".
Pack> Dylan giggles loudly.
Pack> Dylan hastily +fingers Mark. Who am I snubbing?!
Mark looks back at Dylan without blinking. "They are the children of the Weaver. They are given some things, but their course is not ours. We must remain true to our course, or all that we do has no meaning.
By the waterfall, Piotr makes his way into the Caern quietly, settling down out of sight.
Seeker looks at Mark. You underestimate them.
Alexandra chuckles, nodding. "Vastly."
Mark says "No. I simply see our course laid out through the ages and it points to what we must become. Humans may aid us or hinder us, but in the end, we are not human and must not tie ourselves to them too strongly."
Esther eyes the Fianna. "If I'm going to be on the suicide mission, I'd rather like to know what it is the rest of the world is doing, that makes what I'm doing so important."
Collin jsut stays quiet. Apparently he's content to let the other Garou talk this one over.
Sepdet says very drily, ~Speaking as an outside observer on the human condition, all I know is they have a vast capacity. And sometimes that vast capacity is to make a mess. But Mark, if you were right, mules would not be cursed. Garou are not meant to be apart from humans, or the wolves. They're supposed to be a bridge between the thinking and the breathing world. They're not supposed to be a world all their own, though we tend to forget that, when we're busy dealing with our own problems.~
Dylan rests quiet, and lets the others answer Mark.
Mark says, forcefully, "We are not on a suicide mission. Our path is hard and it may seem there is only darkness ahead of us, but if we remain strong in spirit and true to our calling, then we can win the victory we were created for.
Alexandra smiles. "Are we not easily as much human as we are wolf?"
Alexandra nods to Sepdet, bowing to her superior technique.
Mark says "Yes, we are both and we are neither. We stand between Weaver and Wyld where the Wyrm once stood but stands no longer."
Seeker has disconnected.
Sepdet smiles at Mark then, and winks at Dylan. ~Okay. Although...I should note, everyone, what we've talked about tonight is not the standard way you'll hear it, from your elders, and you might want to go back to your own tribe's theurges and get grounded again before I confuse you so far you no longer know what to think. I meant this to be a class to give you grounding. Seems I've just opened questions. Not a bad thing, but a hard thing for most Garou to deal with.~
By the waterfall, Kyle comes down the trail from the rim above.
By the waterfall, Kyle heads into the center.
Kyle has arrived.
You paged Kyle with 'Oh, no. :)'.
Long distance to Kyle: Sepdet somehow started the biggest Stargazer conversation of all time down here. I'm not quite sure how it happened. Kyle's going to think we're speaking in tongues. :)
From afar, Kyle snickers. "Don't worry. Kyle's opinion of Sepdet won't change much." :-)
You paged Kyle with 'Now, did I ever say I expected that? :)'.
Kyle pages: Hee. :-)
Alexandra giggles softly and nudges Collin, murmuring, "Or for some Garou to stop asking, eh?"
Esther seems unmoved by Mark's forceful delivery. "/Personally/, I don't expect to see any victory. /Personally/, I fully expect to die, at least this physical bit of me. That I count as the suicide mission. And I'm doing it 'for the greater good', if you will. Although, Gaia help me, there's been more evil done 'for the greater good' than for any other reason I can think of."
Kyle's arrival is relatively quiet, he simply makes his way into the Caern and moves straight to the group at the center. He stands back from the other Garou, taking a little time to observe them with his hard-eyed gaze.
Alexandra nods at Esther's comment. "Yeah...you can justify damned near *anything* 'for the greater good'..."
Mark shrugs. "Justify what you wish. We fight to repair a vast wound to the Triat. Likely the repair of that wound would be seen as good by some and evil by others. I don't really care what you want to call it, I care that the Garou do not forget why we are and what we strive for."
Sepdet listens to the dissipating currents of conversation and draws her hands together again. ~Okay. Sounds like everyone has enough in their heads, so let's close this for tonight. Next time, we'll not talk, we'll _do_. That's easier to get a grip on anyway. I'll show you some of my favorite spirits...and not-so-favorite...in the area.~ She sits up a little straighter. ~There were only two other things I'd meant to cover tonight. The TRiat, but I think y'all have your own views on them already, and anyway, cubs tend to get that pounded into their skull. And also a problem I'm still working on. Death. Spirits. It's something that worries me, though I _think_ I've finally found the answer.~
Collin rubs his head, "Ow. My skull still hurts from where Sepdet pounded it into mine."
Alexandra grins and taps Collin gently between the ears. "Problem, Collin?"
Sepdet grins faintly at Collin. ~Hey, now I got headaches and questions I didn't before. It's been an interesting night. Anyone want to humor me here? You can flee if you're tired...I hope some of this helped more than hindered.~
Collin cringes as Alexandra taps him, "CarefuL! It's still sore."
Sepdet pages all: Sepdet resists the temptation to say: If anyone needs to get to the next class, I just want to say one more thing, but I promise it won't be on Wednesday's quiz. :)
Sepdet asks no one in particular, ~Death. We hunt Englings for gnosis, and slay them, and we're told it's okay because they're going to reform later. And so we feel okay about it. But if spirits reform after they've been brought down, what's the point of hunting Wyrm?~ She glances over at Esther in particular. ~This has given me a headache for a long time.~
Sepdet pages all: As I attempt to fix a BIG GAPING HOLE in White Wolf logic. :)
Dylan pages to Collin, Mark, Alexandra, Kyle, Sepdet, and Esther: ...or else rip it a little wider...
Kyle's forehead wrinkles, and he watches Sepdet curiously. He's clearly not going to be supplying an answer.
Sepdet continues, carefully, ~My uncle said it was a Strider's mission to learn death like a brother, and so he told me little about it. What I have seen is this. When you weaken a spirit so that it has almost no power left, it can fall and go dormant, so that it appears to die or just disappear. It seems to be some sort of instinctive defense, like blinking your eyes when something comes at them. At that point, you can take the essence of them yourself, to renew your own spirit. So that is why we hunt them sometimes, as wolves hunt prey. If we thank and honor them properly, they do not mind, for after all, the idea of prey is a powerful one, and some of them live it. Also, again, by taking them into us, we unify them with the solid Realm they cannot reach. But with Wyrm, it is more complicated.~
Dylan says softly, "To kill and then reject..."
Sepdet sighs. ~I have seen Wyrm spirits flee when all but dead. But I have almost never seen one go dormant, and reform later. This is a great blessing for us. I think the reason is because they _are_ the manifestation of destruction itself. There is no halfway for them. They destroy, until they are altogether destroyed. If this were not so, we would never be able to defeat our enemies.~ She grins tiredly. ~At least, I hope so. I'm still chewing on this one. Maybe one of you will be able to teach me better someday.~
Mark says "We slow it's progress. And as the umbra can influence the realm, the absence of the Wyrm spirit means that the realm will also hold up a little better as well."
Esther pulls a wry face. ~Don't see how you can destroy destruction. Just slow it up, as Mark says, and give the realm a change to heal some. Or, if you destroy it 'properly', pure destruction, maybe it knocks the corruption out of it a bit. Give it a role model. In which case, figure the Gaians and the Stargazers have got it right,~ she adds, rather dryly.
Sepdet stands up from her central spot she's claimed at the base of the column, signalling the end of the "class". She smiles faintly at poor Casper, who, for all his insightful questions earlier, seems to have been the first one to burn out. ~Hm,~ she says thoughtfully to Mark, although she seems oddly amused by his assertion. She glances around at the rest who have gathered around her near the middle one more time, and smiles faintly at Esther's suggestion. ~Maybe so. As I say, this one's stumped me for years. But that's about all I can talk about tonight. I encourage the cubs particularly to go back to their elders and pester 'm with more questions, to hear about all this from another perspective. Apologies to my own cubs, who are stuck with me.~ She winks at Collin.