As they rise from the frozen forests of the north, they have a lot to say. Garm and Aiwarikiar speak about ULVER, lycanthropy and fairy tales.
Your first release, "Bergtatt" is based on a Norwegian superstition. Could you tell us about it?
Aiwarikiar: The "Bergtatt" fairytale is inspired by a classic theme in Norwegian folklore: it is a story about a young maiden who gets lost in the forest and is abducted by the people of the underworld (the Sub Terra!). Interspersed with a description of the maiden's relation to the subterraneans, her fears, her sadness and longing back to the safety of her home; and the subterraneans's hunger and passion for the girl, are also depictions of Norwegian nature and landscapes. "Bergtatt - A Fairytale In 5 Chapters" is Ulver's attempt to express our feelings towards the sinister sides of Norwegian folklore, superstitions and nature through a classic Norwegian myth. According to tradition, the abducted maidens were usually taken to the subterranean's halls inside the mountains - the word "bergtatt" means, literally translated, "mountain taken" (berg=mountain, tatt=taken), ie. "taken into the mountain". Men could also be abducted - they were then most often lured into the forest by Huldra, a very beautiful female subterranean. In our "Bergtatt", however, we have chosen to let maiden be the victim of the subterranean, as this creates a stronger contrast to the sinister, animalistic nature of the latter, enhancing the impression that the subterraneans are violating something pure and sacred by taking the girl. Moreover, an innocent, frightened maiden facing the Dark Focus, is fitting to represent the helplessness towards the unknown, which I think is strongly present in the abduction myth.
How does the band work on it? What does each and everyone of the 5 "capitlers" describe? What are the points that the band adds in this superstition?
Garm: The lyrics guide the music so to say. Thus the musical variations are necessary to depict the varying atmospheres in the fairytale. With my lyrics and the varying music we try to convey the feeling of the protagonist in "Bergtatt", a young virtuous maid, who at a preliminary stage of the story is on her way home. Briefly, in chapter 1 we try to touch the sore point of being lead astray into a shadowy and awe inspiring forest in fear for the unknown/supernatural powers that exist there. Chapter 2 is a description of her emotions when the veil of night mercilessly is being let down on her. In Chapter 3 the intensity increases as the maid perceives the presence of the subterranean, she does not want to commend herself to these powers, thus is a state of despair she starts to run to escape from their wrath. Subsequently in Chapter 4 she gets bewitched by an alluring and seductive voice; Then accordingly it ends up with her being "spirited off into the mountain" in Chapter 5.
How would you describe your relation to the Norwegian landscape?
Aiwarikiar: The Norwegian landscape has always played an important role in my life. It gives peace to the mind, and develops intuitive powers. A soul blessed with the ability to sense the fragile variations of atmosphere in a natural scene, can grow extensively through the impressions given by nature. This ripening process can, moreover, stimulate towards a deeper emotional understanding of the human bonds to the natural powers present at Earth: the magical energies that swayed our ancestors in the Dark Ages, and that still hover over certain places today.
You use a lot in your songs the Norse Mythology. Which are the points you love most in it? Can you tell us more about Nocks, Huldras and Trolls?
Garm: This you have got wrong... We do not use the Norse mythology as an inspirational source for Ulver... I am, however, very interested in, and have studied much of the Norse mythology (which took event in the years between 600-1200 in case there are someone who didn't know). We have never actually dated our music, but the feeling of a scenery we are trying to evoke in our music belongs more to the epoch around the 15th, 16th and 17th century of Norway. One can say that we try to describe how superstitions manifested themselves in the minds of our people within this period of time, as this particular age of our history provides the best framework for our music... It was an age when superstitions and fear for the unknown was very common amongst our people - when they were of strong convictions that there existed forces of darkness which should not by any means be provoked. These things have affected us much ever since we were children, thus we have this strong attraction towards the topic today and try to conjure it up in our music... Anyhow, I can understand why you associate our concept with Norse mythology, as peoples' beliefs in these creatures probably derives from the Viking ages and the Vikings. These things have survived the limits of time. Even today children in Norway are taught at an early age that the troll will come and get them if they don't behave, therefore most Norwegians have these things embedded in their blood so to say. The troll is a big spiteful creature that dwells in the vast forests. The troll is dark and ponderous. He can not endure the light of day, and if he gets exposed to sunlight he turns to stone. You can hear his voice in the storm, and glimpse the outlines of him in the mist, thus he is surrounded by a tinge of mysticism and awe. He is the fear of natural phenomenon, the terror of the woods and the horror of the dark has always lurked in the Norwegian mind... There are many myths about troll rocks and mountains in Norway. The nock leads his life in calm tarns in the forest. He is the one who trys to allure humans, preferably children, with him down into the deep. According to the legend the nock often metamorphoses into a white horse. Those who place themselves on the back of this trustful horse, will subject to his wish, and get a ride over stock and stone straight down into the dark lake where the nock keeps his house. Huldra appears as a fair maiden and is particulary seen in the mountains where she is busy cattling. She is often clad in the national costume with her beautiful long blond hair hanging loose down her shoulders. It is said that most men cannot withstand her beauty. If a man lets himself be fooled by this enchanting beauty, she will lure him with her into the world of the little people underground where he has to stay for the rest of his life. Ulver is a synthesis of all the atmospheres provided to us by the dark, sinister sides of Norwegian folklore.
As far as I know Trolls are creatures that turn to stone. In psychoanalysis the transformation to stone on a visionary level refers to persons who have deep feelings. Could you compare this with the romantic sometimes music of Ulver?
Aiwarikiar: Ulver's music is romantic because it is an expression of our emotions towards certain power and values. In this sense I would certainly say our music is deep.
How could you compare the beauty of night with evil? Does Evil has its romantic side? How would you describe it?
Aiwarikiar: The presence of the Dark Forces can be felt much stronger during the night. Most of my overwhelming occult/religious experiences have taken place in the forest at night, when the emotional bonds to the sinister powers in the universe ("Evil"/"Satan") are enhanced by the beauty and atmosphere of the scene. As the night has always been associated with demoniac power and the dark side of the human psyche (i.e. evil), it is natural for me to regard night and evil as two related phenomena. As for the romantic side of evil, I would say the very essence of black metal is a romantization, or glorification if you like, of evil. It is important here that the term "evil" is correctly understood. People tend to mistake their own degenerated lusts and perversions for evil, but true evil is as pure as innocence. Correctly defined, evil is a force, which is amoral, a force transcending the bounds of morality. On an individual psychological level, evil is thus what one would call an "amoral conciousness", unclouded by conventional moral illusions or petty human considerations. And there is a beauty in this because there is a purity. Evil has a grandeur, because it embodies power and strength. I see Satan partly as a personification of these values and attributes.
In "Bergtatt" there are some acoustic parts with classical guitar, flute and piano. These parts will be the whole thing behind your upcoming album "Kveldssanger". Why did you decide to use acoustic instruments? Which are the things that can be expressed better by them?
Garm: Acoustic instruments are very fit to convey an atmosphere of nature mystics... I guess the absence of electricity has much to do with it; Thus makes it sound more genuinely trollish and antiquated. It has been usual for Haavard and myself for quite some time to gather in front of the fireplace, play acoustic guitar and create folk based, nostalgic and melancholic melodies independent of our interests in the metal music, therefore this album was a very natural thing to do. We have recorded "Kveldssanger" now, and it will be out shortly... If one keeps in mind that this never was intended to be a metal album, and one enjoys sensitive and dreamlike music, I believe this could be something for all kinds of people. Also if people from foreign countries are curious on the majestic, trollish and bewitching atmospheres that can be found in the nature of Norway, my advice is to be attentive to "Kveldssanger"; as I believe this album should evoke them quite well... We have decided to release this album under the Ulver moniker, because the concept and visual aspect of the music on this album is entirely the same as we do when performing in metal manners.
I think that the use of acoustic instruments presumes musical education. Are you educated musicians?
Garm: I take that as a compliment, thank you... Nevertheless, none of us are trained musicians.
Except "kveldssanger" you are going to release another album, titled "Nattens Madrigal". It is more in black metal vein than "Kveldssanger" and its based upon the mysteries of lycanthropy. How do you approach this subject?
Aiwarikiar: "Nattens Madrigal" will be based upon Norwegian myths and legends concerning lycanthropy, i.e. the belief in lycanthropy as it has manifested itself in Norway through the ages. We see lycanthropy as a symbol of the awakening of the beast in man, the awareness of our animal nature and the dark sides of the subconscious. Man metamorphosing into wolf and succumbing to the desire to ravage through the wilderness to hunt and kill, represents man rendered powerless facing forces stronger than himself: the victory of Evil over Good. Naturally, this transformation takes place during the night, under the sway of the forces of darkness and evil; and this connection between night and evil embodied in the idea of lycanthropy, makes the subject perfect for an honouring of the Dark Forces. "Nattens Madrigal" will be a hymn to the night containing everything that Ulver wants to convey: intensity and hatred, romance and tragedy, all in a Norwegian folkloristic framework. "Nattens Madrigal" is the quintessance of Ulver. Such a violent and intense concept requires violent and intense music; it was therefore natural for us to make "Nattens Madrigal" into a traditional pure black metal album, with ugly production, harsh guitar sound, exclusively grim vocals and intense speed, nevertheless with the same mourning, dirge-like feeling over the riffs as on "Bergtatt", to express the romantic side of Evil over a gruesome background.
What label is going to release your new albums and by when?
Aiwarikiar: "Kveldssanger" will be released by Head Not Found/Voices of Wonder at the dawn of the year 1996. The release of "Nattens Madrigal" is more uncertain at this point of time. We would like to get a bigger deal on this album, but the details are not yet worked out. The date of the recording is equally vague, but we expect to get the album out shortly after the release of "Kveldssanger", preferably at the peak of 1996.
What kind of music do you listen to usually?
Garm: I hear to different music that moves me, dependent on which emotional state I am in... Be it folk, classical, industrial, techno or whatever. Right now I am listening to the soundtrack "Interview With The Vampire" by Elliot Goldenthall, which is a darkly fascinating masterpiece. As far as black metal goes, there are many great bands, but I guess the most outstanding act for me has to be comrades Dark Throne. I rather enjoy listening to their immense way of expressing hatred, tyrannical cruelty and bitter coldness.
What do you think about black metal scene? Do you think that it starts to change? If your answer is positive, which are the musical directions that you think it will take?
Aiwarikiar: Changes are definately taking place in the Norwegian scene. We are witnessing a tendency towards increasing musical experimentation, with bands like Isengard, Storm, Arcturus, Ved Buens Ende etc. bringing new elements into black metal. I think people have matured, both musically and personally and become more confident in what they are doing, thus producing art of ever increasing quality. I think the Norwegian elite will continue to press in this direction. I would further like to point out that while the reorientation in the scene is highly interesting, it is a true delight to have bands like Darkthrone around, who stay true to the old, traditional way of doing black metal and continue to release ever more gruesome and controversial works in the same old vein, unaffected by what happens around them. Darkthrone will always be the Kings of Black Metal. Hail! But while the elite part of the scene is getting better and better, I can see an utterly deplorable development in the, shall I say, worthless parts of the scene. I deem it is excellent that black metal has become "big", but I find it regrettable that talentless jerks get the opportunity to release their worthless garbage because the music business signs anything played by individuals in black clothes. Further, the commercialization of black metal has led to a loss of much of the old mystic around the style. I am sitting with the latest issue of Nordic Vision next to me, and all I can read is uninteresting gibberish about record deals, studio budgets, promotional material and money - little or no consideration is given to the philosophy or personality of the artists which I deem as important in Black Metal as the music itself. The fact that black metal has become an industry is an advantage whan dedicated artists understand how to exploit it to spread our message, but I am disgusted to see black metallers letting the music business exploit them to make the scene boring and commercial.
Which are the underground bands that you respect the most?
Garm: Demanded and respected are all ye who appear with style and devotedness, with an impassioned and self assured approach to the basic idea that embodies black metal. Ye who evince great comprehension of what this music is all about and are driven by the passions for the darkside without regard to what is popular at the moment and such. I honour all ye who take an artist's pride in the works of thine. May ye wander the shadows of this world with me. I must also admit that I appreciate an intelligent approach to the idea, but I do not see this as a must if thy hearts are in the right place.
Which are the bands that you don't respect at all?
Garm: Looked askance at are shallow, ignorant, recreat and false twerps incompatible of both making music and reflecting deeply. Ye Philistines ought to go and rectify the errors of thy brains immediately. Loads of hate goes out to all ye unintelligent people of this world.
Do you know anything about Greek mythology? Is there anything that impresses you?
Aiwarikiar: I have a basic knowledge of the most famous Gods and Goddesses of ancient Greece and the myths around them. I am particularly fascinated by the night and splendour of this ethos, as it is manifested for instance in the myth of Zeus or the battle of the Titans and the rebellion of Cronos.
In your letter you use a few words from William Blake "When the doors of perception are open, then we shall see infinity". Which is its deeper meaning for you? Which are your relations with the European literature? Favorite books?
Garm: These are words of wisdom I greatly appreciate... The deeper meaning is of course that when one is capable of percepting things clearly, one can also transcend and reach further limits of the subconscious... I read a lot of Norwegian literature, but both the European literature (Baudelaire, Rousseau, Lautréamont, Poe, Blake, Byron, Majakovski etc.), as well as the world literature is of course of great significance to me as an inquisitive persona.
Last shots, last cracks?
Garm: As the wolves cease their howling and day finally breaks, as the violence of the night comes at last to an end with the rising of the sun, we all know that night must fall again...
Garm: At night our feminine and destructive energies awakens the beast in us - and what the beast does at night is most commonly associated with evil. The wolf is such a predator of the night; and if you, with me, acknowledge the wolfs' attachment to this very night as romantic then you have your answer.
Interview by George Florakis
Appeared in Sub Terra Hellenic Underground Zine
Issue 0, February '96
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