REYN AGAIN:
Put gold on the fountain, set guard on the stones
Keep the ways of old alive, with the future's tools of ease
Hang corn from the branches, wear masks at the rites
Make wild in the forests, put truth to the fore
These are the words by Ian Read, a member of the magnificent Neo-Folk band Fire & Ice, a band that offers highly intelligent and proficient music, a band that delivers Apocalyptic Folk at it's best, a band that might be unknown to some of you, but if you were attracted by these words you read above you might also enjoy the thoughts and issues raised within this quite special interview that I am very proud to present within these pages.
Greetings, Ian. Could you please tell us what has happened lately concerning the band? Any news?
Most recently, we played a sell-out concert with Strength Through Joy in Plauen which is near Leipzig in Germany. The next album "Birdking" is well under way and should be released at the end of 1997.
Well, a boring standard question first. How came the idea of creating such a concept album with your new CD?
The Rūna CD (as stated in the booklet) is my Masterpiece to be recognised as a Rune-Master in the Rune-Gild. People are fond of making claims about their own abilities with the Runes; a masterpiece is our way of ensuring these claims are genuine. This is required in the Gild to ensure that our standards remain high.
First of all, what can you tell me about the upcoming FIRE & ICE album "Birdking" both lyrically and musically? Make us hot!!!!
The ideas in "Birdking" are less specialised than those in "Rūna". I am pushing the boundaries between the Fire + Ice mystery as far as lyrics and music allow (I do not agree that the music has to thump and whine to be aggressive or "dark" - although I like this approach if well done). Most people I speak to appreciate a progression from one album to the next: expect more of this with "Birdking".
Our time is signed with strong political changes. How do you evaluate the political structures and happenings in today's world?
Today's world is going to the dogs. More literally than this saying suggests, bearing in mind how inferior the people who rule us generally are (my apologies to canines everywhere). Better to look to your own backyard, gather such power as you can, and sod the lot of them.
I used to live in the GDR (East Germany). What do you think about this era and "socialism" in general?
No matter what system of social engineering one creates, someone will find the loopholes in it and use it for his own benefit - the world just is like this. Amusingly enough (although not to those suffering under it), the more benevolent the system claims it is, the more malevolent it often turns out to be in practice. The people in Leipzig I met seemed happier under a so-called democracy, although they did point out that unemployment is high where previously there was none. In time they will no doubt come to realize that, no matter the system, you are only as free as your own cunning and the government's inattention allows.
In which light do you see the multicultural Europe of the next millenium? Is this the future you want? What kind of vision comes to your mind when thinking about "the future of mankind", if there is any?
Presumably, by multicultural, you mean cultures living alongside each other, because they certainly almost never successfully integrate. I won't bore your readers with examples, there are so many of them in Europe today. When I travel to other countries I like to experience their way of life and customs whilst with them. The idea, and soon-to-be reality, that they will all resemble each other, is anathema to me. Give me diversity any day over this conformity. My vision of the future of humnanity would give Stephen King nightmares.
The occult is becoming something like a trend already. Could this possibly harm the seeker's path? Mass religions usually lack spiritual strength. What do you think about magic on TV, then?
The occult is a trend and its followers should be avoided like the plague. Seek out those who truly dare to walk their own way. To make a cosy social club out of the search towards the mysteries (and even worse to join such a club) is something no Self-respecting man should ever countenance. The only magic to appear on TV, apart from anthropological programmes, should be David Copperfield. No other magic could appear on TV. Mass religions may have enough strength to keep the common man happy, and, if they allow superior beings to bend the rules a bit, may even be an advantage over the consumer-driven, mammon-worshipping mess we currently find ourselves in.
Another philosophic question. Do you think there's a difference between instincts and intelligence?
Intelligence is difficult to define but could be said to be the ability to think, make sense out of your thoughts and act upon them. Instinct may be informed by intelligence but is an outside agent. This is why we in the Rune-Gild study academic sources for the mysteries but act upon them from instinct and feeling in order to do: known as brauche in German. Modern English lacks the vocabulary to explain such concepts adequately. The soul-lore of the Germanic people is a far better model for understanding the human psyche.
The human being as such can appear in, well, several forms. How is your personal definition of a sub-human, if there is any? What are the main attributes of a strong individual, then?
Superior people think for themselves without fear or favour (although they may have to be cunning on occasions). Their wills are strong and independent, which means they keep their word when freely given. Such men will not give two hoots for trends such as political correctness (meaning, either in its observance or deliberate flouting), fashion or other fads. Deification of the individual and immortality is their aim. In short, they are outsiders or fremd. Inferior people lack most or all of these qualities.
If you could produce a film fitting to your music, how would this look like in your imagination?
A different film would have to be made for each track. However, in general I imagine a lone figure leaning against a giant yew tree, spear in hand, staring at a plain with thousands of dead upon it, half tearful and half gleeful. Two ravens circle the plain, and you get the idea.
The music of FIRE + ICE is very calm and silent. Have you ever thought about putting something like aggression into your music? Do you like "aggressive music" personally?
Calm and silence does not necessarily lack aggression in my book. Presumably you mean loud music with a driving beat? If so, then, yes I do like some music of this genre but only if played well. Who knows what the future projects may sound like; although I doubt "Birdking" will have anything like you describe on it.
You highly respect Edred Thorsson. Give us your basic thoughts about this man!
Edred Thorsson meets all the criteria I have given in answer to question 8. He also has more knowledge and understanding of the mysteries of Northern Europe, both academically and practically, than anyone I have ever met or heard of.
Rumours say, he wasn't really exact and honest when it comes to some sources of his writings?
Rumours don't cut any ice with me; give me facts. In this, I detect the whinging of cowards who, unable to equal or even understand their betters, would rather whisper from the shadows. They need reminding that Galdormenn are as at home in the shadows as they are in the light.
So what do you think about Stephen Flower's "Fire + Ice" and the Fraternitas Saturni in general?
Fire & Ice sets out to explain something about the FS from a scholarly perspective up until around 1970. From discussions I have had with current high-ranking FS adepts I am led to believe that, in the main, Dr. Flowers successfully achieved this. Many of the ideas delineated in the book appeal to me and have informed my workings. Some members are or have been magical colleagues of mine. In general, then, I must say that I find the FS agreeable.
Books can't really guarantee illumination. They can only be a link. Do you agree? Are there any books that have particularly influenced you, for example in your childhood?
Yes, I do agree, although most occult books are a waste of trees and I would counsel seekers after the genuine mysteries to favour academic works and eschew the trendy "Teach Yourselves Runes in Ten Easy Lessons" type of drivel. (A book with a similar title actually exists. Edred Thorsson pointed out in a talk in England that the author lacked even the sense to call it "Nine Easy Lessons".) As a young man I learnt about élitehood from Leslie Charteris's Saint books. OK, they appear somewhat dated now, but Simon Templar is the perfect role model for any young rebel or devil. Incidentally, apparently a "Hollywood" Saint film, with an American in the lead role, is in the making. This makes me sick to my stomach, as the Saint was an English gentleman, and ever should remain so.
Is there any possibility to see FIRE + ICE live in the near or distant future?
There is always a possibility for live work in the near future.
Would you please comment on the following people: a) A.O.Spare / b) Anton S.LaVey / c) Freya Aswynn / d) Julius Evola / e) Bill Clinton / f) Yukio Mishima / g) Ian Read
Austin Osman Spare is a lot more and a lot less than Kenneth Grant has made him out to be. I know this from discussions with many of his friends and colleagues who are still alive. Sadly, he has become a trendy person to be interested in. Doctor LaVey is a person I am hoping to meet at some time, having heard many things about him over the years. He has created himself in his own self-willed image and this makes him interesting to any follower of the Left-Hand Path. Julius Evola and Yukio Mishima are clearly worthy of note; however, my time is limited and there is so much to be done and, thus, I have no time to spare on reading material not directly related to my quest. Modern politicians are beneath contempt. Ian Read follows the watchword Rūna and the phrase Reyn til Rūna! or "seek towards the mystery". All else is subject to this, the Greatest of all possible Great Works.
I am only familiar with basic thoughts on Chaos Magick (I have only read "The Pact") so please excuse my ingeniousness. Well, when reviewing Pete Caroll's new book "Psybermagick" in CHAOS INTERNATIONAL, Allan Wicca talks about the "cutting edge of art and science". What does that mean in your sense? Furthermore, in CHAOS INTERNATIONAL #19, Rex Monday states that: "Chaos magic exponents seem to be advocating a 'go with the flow' mentality which has always been a sop to peasants, thralls and slaves. They offer no way out of the postmodern cultural decay, only total immersion in the mirage." What do you think about that?
At the last IOT AGM I retired and, whilst remaining a member of the Pact, have no interest in considerations of its philosophies. I was never a Chaos Magician, having stayed true to the Aesir for more than two decades. The IOT were simply the only group I could find which enabled me to learn valuable techniques and practise whatever I wished within its structure.
Alright, people always talk about the good old British humour. Being a fanatic fan of Monty Python I ask myself whether or not good old British humour is still alive? How's your view on Rowan Atkinson quitting this Mr. Bean thing????
The first Mr Bean had some high points, subsequent ones were gilding the lily and represent a low-point in Rowan Atkinson's career. How could they ever be compared with his excellent Black Adder series? British humour was always better in person. Unfortunately, this makes it inaccessible to those not speaking English as their native tongue (or having lived there for some years and been accepted). In this form it lives on. On television it is mostly dead (or Americanized, which is probably worse).
A straight forward question. As you love nature, do you hate man?
Man is a part of nature like all things. Many things in nature are not likeable. However, I deal with mankind enough to know that most of its members are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. Hatred is reserved for the worthy; most men only earn contempt.
How do you view the decay of modern language. Slang. Americanized words. Being cool. Do you think the use of words can reflect the intellect of a human being? What about your experiences with the German language? You know, whenever I hear decadent (or ordinary) German people speak I run for my life. Is it the same in England?
Decay seems present in most things nowadays. Americans use many words which are archaic and have died out in England, which is our loss. Some American slang is inventive and rather amusing or even useful. Some just turn's ones stomach. Clearly, intelligent, literate people have a wider vocabulary than the less blessed and are more careful with grammar. However, they are just as subject to trendy use of language as the next man, even if this means bending the grammar somewhat, which is easier to do in English than German. I love to speak German whenever possible. It changes my worldview and perspective, and is good for the little grey cells. Yes, English has declined too. Once I recieved a letter in German from a young German man and for my own amusement, I corrected his horrible grammar like a schoolmaster would, and sent it back to him with my reply. Sadly, he did not share my sense of humour or, better yet, learn something from my actions.
To develop one's personality is a very important psychological step in our life, especially during adolescence. There are people who are very much influenced by others, they do and say what they saw from others. Other people always go their own way, even at an age when it's important to belong to a group and to be accepted. How do you think has your personality developed, I dare to ask? Who or what has influenced you? Ehem, which important hint can you give to a 20-year-old young man???
Going one's own way may be unfortunate if that way is an unwise one. I see nothing wrong with learning from others, providing one seeks out only those worthy of emulation. Hopefully, those with eyes to see, will be able to plot my progression through the fruits of my various labours. Drawing up a list of people who have influenced me would be long-winded and tedious. Suffice to say, observing the actions and words of inferior folk in order to avoid them, can be just as important as the reverse. My advice is to assess and re-assess yourself constantly in order to improve. Forgive yourself when you fail as none of us is perfect. And, when confronted with a situation where a choice is called for, always take the bold course.
"Beauty" is a word that has rather lost it's meaning if you ask me. What is considered to be "beautiful" nowadays? On the one hand (concerning humans) impersonal, industrialized faces without their own identity (machine made faces!!!), on the other hand (concerning nature) well-structured parks with signed paths. But being beautiful, doesn't that mean to be natural, wild and free? What do you associate with the word "beauty"?
Being known as a harbinger of darkness and a producer of so-called apocalyptic folk, it may seem unusual that my musings include such a matter as beauty. However, the mysteries demand one look to both ends of any spectrum and experience them. (I look forward to reading misquotes of this sentence at a later date.) Like all things, to control people you find ways of making them think as you do as a precursor to making them do what you want them to do. Thus, the generally accepted view of beauty will be controlled too. I find well-structured parks and wild forests beautiful in their own way. In English we say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and to impose a rule for it would be daft. I find Constable, Reubens and suchlike paintings beautiful, along with the Pre-Raphaelites. I enjoy Mozart, Beethoven etc. Powerful women are beautiful. The list is endless.
Eh, talking about quitting. Why CHAOS INTERNATIONAL?
It is better to leave off things at their peak. Not wanting to cheat any subscribers, I announced that no more full subscriptions would be accepted, and run down the magazine from thence on. This, and the fact that C.I. has never missed a deadline, is something I am rather proud of. A magazine dedicated to the mysteries of Northern Europe and to be called Rūna is my next project.
Which points will be raised within the pages of "Rūna"? Don't you think there is the risk of repeating and limiting yourself with such a mag?
There is definitely a risk of repetition but this subject is truly vast and a careful editor should be able to make a go of it. "Rūna" will include material about Celtic matters, Eastern European mysteries, archaelogy, modern interpretations etc. When the day comes (if this is possible) that the magazine has outlived its usefulness it will go the way of Chaos International and only appear when something new needs to be aired.
If FIRE + ICE would be a tree, would this tree have a straight and clear structure or would it be a disorder of a thousand little leaves?
Fire + Ice would be both these and more.
All right, that's all for now, Ian. Thank you very much for answering this interview. If there's something you always wanted to say, but never had the possibility, please say it now!
I thank you for offering me the opportunity of this interview. Alas, I suspect various silly and malicious persons will subtract selected portions, use them out of context, and make any number of unsubstantiated and risible comments on my supposed opinions. Still, as the great Runemaster Egil Skallagrimsson might have said, "that's like a flea crawling up an auroch's leg with intent to rape".
Aeon
Watch the sun's turning, place lords on their thrones
To keep the ancient lore alive that we may Reyn Again
Turn your face to the sacred signs, and the gods of war and peace
And walk in the shadow, and dance in the light, and Reyn Again
Feel the moon's pulling, call forth the old wights
To keep the ancient lore alive that we may Reyn Again
Tell the stories and even the score
To keep the ancient lore alive that we may Reyn Again
Interview appeared in AEON magazine, issue 3
c/o Jörg Matthes
PF 100 842
07708 Jena
Germany
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